Engineer looking for advice on machine and filament…

Bambu Lab X1 Series Bambu Lab X1-Carbon
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Hello,

I’ve been spending time researching 3d printing and materials I need or would like to use. There is so much information and opinions it’s hard to decide on the typical question do I get a p1s or a x1c. I did an amount of work on these when they were known as rapid prototyping machines many years ago but I never ran one at work or owned one. I am an engineer in aerospace and will be using a machine for parts to go on my Ultima GTR etc. Likely majority of parts being my own design drawn on fusion360 etc.

My immediate requirement is printing light housing bodies for a new led headlights I’m designing. Looking, I think I need to be using ASA as a minimum for temperatures and elements they will be exposed to.

Now I was siding with a p1s with ams and have seen the panda touchscreen controller. This including touchscreen upgrade is a £400 (UK) saving on a x1c with ams.

What materials will need the hotter bed temps of the x1c and it looks like there is ‘only’ a 10degC difference in bed temperature between the models? Is this really something that really comes into play?

At what point does the hot end parts need to be replaced in the p1s with parts to widthstand temperature and abrasive qualities of some of the materials that the x1c can handle out of the box? Will or might the x1c need uprating?

I had it in my head I wanted an ams. However, I was thinking to use this as a convenient way of housing and using different types of filament (not on the same job), not different colours of the same type. So say 1x pla black for fit and form, 1x asa black for parts, maybe abs or pc probably in black, and I do like the idea of being able to use cf although I think I read the ams is not suitable for cf and for tpu. I may get bold and try a different colour at some point depending on the job I’m on if there is a need or clear benefit. Is it still worth having the ams?

I will be using this as my own machine at home printing jobs I need for certain applications like car parts and other projects us engineers/hobbies get up to. I won’t be using it all the time but it’s the capability I need over speed etc.

Ease of use is also useful as I am a beginner to a point and have a lot to learn. I am aware of the lidar, the processing power differences etc.

I am able to buy either but don’t want to waste money on something I won’t need but also don’t want to find after needing to upgrade parts I could have just got a higher model for similar money.

I’ll stop here for now as that’s quite a bit of reading. I would really appreciate any help from people who really know the differences etc with a view of my requirements. I hope this isn’t so much a typical what vs what thread.

Many Thanks, Justin

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First, welcome to the forum.

Two things popped out from your use-case. The first was this comments:

The second was this:

So if I were to give advice to a person considering entering this hobby who is weighing X1 vs P1, here is what I would suggest you ask yourself. Am I as content buy a Toyota, Nissan, or Honda, or am I the kind of person where creature comforts are more important than money and prefer to buy the luxury versions of those cars, Lexus, Infiniti and Acura.

Like you, as someone who also had discretionary budget to spend but also did not want to waste money, I ended up purchasing a P1P last year. I considered the X1 to be too little for too much money. I have friends who operate modest print farms with both printers so I had the rare experience of trying before buying for both models. I might have purchased a P1S had it been available but in hindsight that would have been a waste of $100 for just skins I could have printed myself. Plus, I was able to customize my case using the peg board skin on Bambu’s website and I think the utility that peg board skin provides is useful. But that is personal preference.

In short, for me personally, if the X1 price delta was only $200-$300, I probably would have bought the X1 and I can tell you after a year’s worth of experience with the P1, I would have had buyer’s remorse. But consider that my personal view and you’re will be different.

Comparisons

Check out Bambulab’s comparison chart for side by side.

So here is what I might enumerate as decision points in your analysis which only you can decide which is significant enough to warrant which way to go. Note that AMS can be added at any time so I’m not going to spend too much time comparing that.

X1 P1P P1S
AMS Support Yes Yes Yes
Max Heat Bed Temp(useful for high temp filaments like nylon) 110c 100c 100x
Max Nozzle Temp Same Same Same
Console Panel Color LCD Backlit monochrome LCD Backlit monochrome LCD
Chamber Camera 1080p 720p 5/FPS 720p 5/FPS
Cost $1,200 $600 $700
Approximate addon costs for Glass door, hardened nozzles etc. $200 $150

Note that the X1 already comes with a hardened steel nozzle and extruder, a glass door, and air filtering, which only matter when printing something noxious like ABS. Those add-ons can be purchased for the P1 series, but they do add about $200 to the cost. So the real cost would be higher. Also, note that the air filter is arguably ineffective in removing noxious ABS, so unless you’re printing in an enclosed poorly ventilated space, a vented self-printed solution would probably be best anyway. Additionally, ABS-like filaments prefer warmer chambers, which makes the P1P a challenge. However, I’ve countered that by insulating my self-printed skins, so it’s not proven to be an issue in my use-case. Plus, I’ve used ABS and haven’t found a use-case where PETG or PC, which is devoid of the fume problems, didn’t serve my purpose better—specifically, in the construction of parts that require structural strength and the ability to be tapped for screws.

AMS

While the AMS feature may seem cool on the surface, based on all the reports here and on Reddit, it seems to me that it is Bambu’s Achilles heel. It has the following fundamental flaws, as reported widely here and on Reddit:

  1. You’re locked into Bambu sized spools, it is very cardboard spool unfriendly, therefore you will either want to confine yourself to Bambu filament or respool 3rd part filament onto an AMS-friendly spool, which you can print on your own or purchase.
  2. AMS frequently jams or misfeeds.
  3. It does not universally support all filaments such as flexible TPU.
  4. It is extremely wasteful and expensive to own because each color change requires a filament purge.

So unless your either wanting to take advantage of multicolor prints or use dissolvable support filament(which admittedly is pretty cool) AMS is a creature-comfort that is expensive to own. Plus, if you research the forums, there is a way to pause print and manually change the filament mid-print. I do this all the time for occasions where I need contrast such as recessed print and character contrast is important.

To understand the amount of waste that AMS is responsible for, watch this video from teaching tech. Although his video is primarily about how to mitigate filament waste, here’s his chart showing the weight of the print versus the weight of the filament purge before initiating purge-infill function which cannot be implemented everywhere. This chart is very eye-opening indeed. 24g for the model with 80g for the waste, that’s more than a 3:1 waste to print ratio, so keep this in mind when considering AMS.

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The last key difference between the two classes of printer is the LIDAR and spaghetti detection. I’ll let others comment since I don’t have that in the P1P but it looks to me like a gimmick more than a useful feature. It also limits what build plates that are officially supported by Bambu such as Textured PEI which once you’ve used that, you’ll never want to use anything else.

_______________________________________________________________

After having my P1P for over a year, I can tell you that the only thing I think I would have liked to see in the P1, which is only available in the X1, is a better camera. But is that worth twice the price? To me, no, but your mileage may vary. Also, the touch screen to me is a frivolous feature given the cost difference and you will likely find that you’ll be doing 90% of your interaction with the printer from the Slicer, spool changes aside though, that’s easier from the pane than from inside the slicer.

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The biggest thing for me in deciding to go with the X1C was the enclosed chamber. You need an enclosed chamber to print most “engineer” grade filaments.

For example Nylon CF, forget about it unless you have a chamber since the ambient temperature needs to stay around at least 50°C. Without the chamber, Nylon CF will warp considerably as it’s being printed, so the bottom will be a different size than the top of your model, it will detach from the bed and overall make a useless part if it makes a part at all.

I have tried Nylon CF, PC and ABS so far and can tell you for sure these all need an enclosed chamber, there are more filaments that have this same requirement but I haven’t tried them yet.

From personal experience, the X1C has no problem maintaining a 50°C ambient temperature in the chamber just from heated bed alone. It could probably even go higher but I have not attempted this myself.

The P1S is going to limit you to using about 3 different very basic filaments : PLA, PETG and TPU. Not sure about ASA, I haven’t printed that yet.

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Welcome.

Just a thought for your next post, you do not need to post the identical topic in different groups, people will find the single post.

What happens when you dual post is that people trying to help may miss points made in the other thread or get annoyed things are appearing in one when they think it’s the other.

It’s just too confusing.

Your category from the other post was the best fit for your question as you were asking about two different printers and the comparisons between them.

Putting it in the X1 category wouldn’t this one is in wouldn’t have hurt you though.

A good question though.

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As A Chemical Engineer, Pilot, and AutoCross Racer, I think I can relate to your novice inquiry. Olias covered a lot of good information. Pro’s and Con’s from his experience. I started 4 years ago with a QIDI-X-Plus, and then later bought a X1C with AMS, and last year an A1 Mini. I prefer the enclosed features for noise, temp, and odor control. I also have 3 separate dedicated filament driers to store and dry partial spools up to 5 spools at a time. Most of my printing has been with PLA and PETG. My X1 has over 1900 hours of use thus far, and dozens of colors. Both the X1 and A1 are very fast and produce great quality prints. Both offer 4 plus color simultaneous prints. [multi color] The X1 could support up to 16 colors with multiple AMS’s. So the potential is broad and relatively easy to learn compared to fluid dynamics or Thermal dynamics. However a little time reviewing the material factors of certain plastics is a plus. Money and time are always the factors to balance. It is rare when both are available at the same time.
My recommendation is to start with an A1 Mini to gain experience in the “Art of 3D Printing.” And limit your experience to PLA and PETG. Then when confident in that operation consider the X1C with a single AMS.
My 24’x16’ printing room/Office is air conditioned and I have a simple bathroom vent system installed to purge odors when printing other filaments.
Don’t use PLA for any out door use where exposed to direct sunlight. [It does make the most colorful prints. But…] It warps! PETG is adequate for most applications followed by PETG CF. [Albeit limited in color selection.] These work well for outdoor, tools, and auto parts.
Your Fusion experience will serve you well for the more detailed designs. You will find the multi Plate capability of the BamBu Studio especially helpful with multi component builds as it allows you to assemble the parts to check for assembly reliability.
And while the working areas are stated as 256x256x256 be advised that for multi color that typically is limited to 215x215x256. The “Prime Tower” gets in the way. [A nozzle wiping and purging aid.] The same ratio is applicable to the A1. Printing diagonally regains some size, but requires some maneuvering of the model.
And waste is a function of how many color changes are required in a model based on how it is oriented on the build plate.
The learning curve is not steep but broad. Machine maintenance is normal for a complex machine.
It is a designers tool that goes from idea to finished product in short order, which is ideal for design engineers.

Welcome to the forum.

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If you are doing functional prints, more or less as one-offs, then you do not need the ams. Save the cash and buy a couple of filament dryers. For practical purposes, the p1s and x1c, apart from lidar, are more or less the same. You do not need a fancy touch screen. If you are using gf or cf filled filament, you need a .6mm hardened steel, (or other non standard type) nozzle and hardened steel extruder, which may not be standard. However, for engineering plastics, beyond asa, you will need a heated chamber, which means some brand other than bbl. Whatever you get, in the consumer price range, will require a significant amount of tuning.

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I think some of features that the X1C has over the P1S are easily overseen or underrated:

Spaghetti detection: Using the camera, the printer detects failed prints, pauses and asks you on screen and in the app, if you want to proceed or cancel. It works like a charm and has saved me quite some filament and time.

Faster processor: I have heard that wifi transmission is much faster on the X1C, because the P1S has such a slow processor. It is also the reason, why the P1S camera has only 2 fps besides the lower resolution.

Lidar: that was mentioned, but I have the feeling that it is received as completely superfluous. I don’t think so. Apparently it didn’t work very well in the beginning but that seems to have changed in the last year. For me at least it is very convenient. For my most used filaments, I create dedicated material profiles including pressure advance. For the materials I print less, it is great to still have pressure advance measured at the start of the print. And the values it delivers have been spot on for me. Actually I trust it more than two of the test prints included in Orca. So even if I measure it manually for a profile I also let the printer determine the PA value. If it is off, then I check the manual measurement first. I didn’t try first layer inspection yet. Maybe I’m missing out there.

Display and extruder have also been mentioned already. I think, sooner or later you want the the hardened extruder and nozzles anyway if you print technical material. PA-CF comes to mind, which is much easier to print than pure PA.
If you want the display, I would go with the original. I think Bambu already announced indirectly, that they might close out the aftermarket displays in a future firmware update. I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that. There are also many people who are perfectly happy with the P1S display who mainly use the slicer or the app to control the printer. So that really depends on you.

In summary, the P1S can deliver exactly the same prints as the X1C and with that as a criterion it is much better bang for the buck. I don’t think the heat bed temperature makes any relevant difference.
The X1C adds a bunch of convenience features that you don’t strictly need but you might want.
Knowing myself, I would have regretted going for the P1S after some time, just because I knew that the X1C exists and I’m a big fan of usability and seamless user interfaces. Others might feel exactly the opposite, having the feeling that they spent money on an X1C that would have been much better invested somewhere else.

Regarding the AMS, you have perfectly understood the benefits and limitations already. An occasional multicolor print is no problem, regular full size color models are a chore. But for me it is worth a lot that I can select the material just with a click. already considering a second AMS, because 4 rolls feels so limiting.

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Thank you all for great advise and your time. I have decided on the x1c with ams. I thought I’d already decided on the p1s but things move on.

I do have another question to people, I’ve had a look at what comes with the package, the accessories etc. The main thing I am not sure on are spare hotels and nozzles including sizes.

The machine looks to come with a 0.4mm nozzle / hot end assembly. From reading, 0.2mm is for more fine detailed work and 0.6 for faster printing but also I’ve read this size is required to print CF filament?

So what do people suggest and along with this, I’ve seen the panda quick changeable heads / nozzles and another make. Do people buy just nozzles or assemblies, or aftermarket ‘things’?

Thanks again, Justin

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Sorry, not sure how hotends became hotels and predictive text goes for hotness anyway :grin:

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I have bought all sizes but still didn’t try any of the others :joy: While on my old printer, i often switched to 0,6 or even 0,8mm for speed, that is far less relevant on the X1C, because already with 0,4mm, the limiting factor is how much material the heater can melt and not the movement speed. 0,6mm for filament containing particles (cf, gf, glow in the dark, …) makes sense though. I received a spare 0,4mm nozzle with my X1C, so no need for a spare. The 0,2 certainly can produce amazing detail. So both of them make sense. Make sure to take the fully assembled hotends so that they are quick and easy to exchange.

I bought far too much filament from Bambu together with the printer to take advantage of the rebate. I mainly buy other brands now. Especially the PETG is very bad quality. I’m sure, the PLA matte is identical to Polymaker Polyterra which is cheaper even if Bambu is discounted.