Miniature print settings, quality and print time

[Camzilla]

I’ve been printing some miniatures from the Dragonbane campaign lately, I did a bit of research to find the best print settings but couldnt find a straight “do this to get the best results”-guide, so I thought I’d compare notes and get some input from the community.

I’ve been trying to find a good balance between print time and quality. I struggled a bit with the best support settings as sometimes they’d break during prints making spaghetti.

Printed on a p1p with 0.2mm nozzle, PETG HF with bambu slicer.
Settings (edit: added comparison sheet!):

Print time:
Each miniature (around 4-5cm) sliced at roughly 3 hours. Seems to be similar to this makerworld example profile (selecting p1p, estimate is 3.7h). No matter which preset I pick in the slicer standard/fine/high quality, the printing time is roughly around 3h. This adds up fast when printing a full plate - is that normal for minis this size?

Filament:
In retrospect PETG HF might not be ideal for minis. They are a bit too fragile, some parts would break off if they fell on the floor. Is that inevitable with such small details, or comes down to the filament? If my printer was incased and ventilated, I know there could have probably been some sturdier options.

Supports:
I’ve tried a bunch of different support settings. The default tree had always worked fine for normal prints, but minis are so small that the supports end up super thin. A few that had steep angles broke off mid-print. Because the print time is so long, this is obvious a pain point… Is there a good way to predict where supports might break? My latest attempt is trying double walled trees for extra stability, but then again, is a big time sink since its not needed everywhere. I know manual supports are a thing, but for so many models I would still be here painting supporting.

Quality:
My first test print was with a 0.4mm nozzle, after swapping to the 0.2mm I was both surprised and a little disappointed in the quality after swapping nozzle. I got finer details but also more surface defects than expected. Maybe I’m comparing too much to “perfect” prints online (or just resin printers), but I was hoping for fewer flaws. Does it come down to slicer settings and filament dryness? (assuming printer is leveled properly)

Here are some pictures:
Pink guy was the first test print with 0.4mm nozzle. Got very jagged detailed result which is why I ended up getting the 0.2mm nozzle instead. Please ignore the neglected and undried pink PLA I used to test print

Second print with some smaller defects and wisps, but much less than the first and cleared up even more after some extra drying:

Marked a few areas where supports look like they about to break, a few others were not so lucky:

After support cleanup there are still some defects that I’m not happy with. Unfortunately with this filament you can see really clearly when an area has been handled as the green turns really light:

Overall, the minis look good at normal viewing distance. The 0.2mm nozzle really adds impressive details! I’m definitely nitpicking at this point, but trying to improve for future prints. Any tips or feedback appreciated

[EnoTheThracian]

Wow, they do look really good already

As for tips, well,

• PLA will probably give even better results as you already surmised.
• For the PETG prints, do you have “wipe on retract” enabled? I have found that to be quite important for my PETG prints.
• The top surface of the stands may benefit from a few more top layers.
• And the final thing I can think about at the top of my head, adaptive layers are great for this. You can also further reduce the minimum layer height below its defaults in the machine settings, but be cautious. I have no idea how support interfaces would react to this and you need to preview the flow. Anything above around 0,03mm³/s was still OK on my X1.

Nicely done and please keep us posted,
Eno

[lkraus]

I’ve never printed miniatures, so not qualified to offer suggestions, but they do look good.

I do think you can save yourself some work when posting settings.

Save the changes you have made, either as a User preset (for use on similar models) or as a Preset Inside Project (applicable to this project only). Then use the Compare Presets tool to show only the differences between a system preset (that everyone has) and your modified preset.

That is a lot less copy/paste/formatting for you and reduces the settings that others must review to see your changes.

Example only, random changes - don’t use!

[Camzilla]

Cool didn’t know about the comparison! Added a screen of that.

[Camzilla]

Tried some new support settings yesterday; both were disappointing. Neither printed cleanly and the trade off was not worth it. My hands still hurt after cleaning up the supports and they were also too strong and risk damaging the model on removal.

First prints I printed with default Tree Hybrid settings:
Checked on the print early and everything looked fine. Checked again mid print and spotted a very suspicious support laying on the build plate… sure enough one had broken somewhere:

I ended up skipping the bottom-left guy since he looked beyond saving. Was hoping that the stringing on top right was only on the supports, not sure where it came (except the neighbor) from but the model was alright after removing the supports.

Those supports were too strong and were stuck too hard, specially on the wings on the top-left guy. Maybe they’d work better with a different support material, but even then ibw support still broke off mid-print. Never found exactly where it came from but the bottom left guy is definitely the prime suspect.

Second test: Tree Organic with modified diameter and diameter angle
Those supports looked better at first. No broken supports on the print plate. But unfortunately there was some issues: Biggest one was one lady who lost her arm. I think the mess on the second model was just dragged there and fortunately didn’t cause any issues to that print.

The supports in general seemed much better, they fully wrapper around parts of the models. Removing them was very painful. Lacking some kind of micro sheer-cutter in my toolbox that would have made it easier, but still pretty high risky of damaging the model.

Conclusion:
Since the support snapping happen somewhere mid-print, I’m leaning to the bigger culprit here is warping and then getting knocked over by the nozzle. Since I have a barebones p1p printer the temperature probably dropped fast further away from the warmth of the build plate.

I’ve set up some makeshift walls, doors and ceiling and going to try another print back to regular tree supports with a slight increase in the diameter.

I’m almost done printing all the models (it’s for a friend), so I might not have enough prints left to fully polish the best support settings. Hopefully this helps someone else dealing with similar issues

[Camzilla]

After cleanup

[EnoTheThracian]

Wow, those three look really good

From your error and failure mode description, may I ask if your filament has been dried?

Curling (frequently seen on overhangs and supports) is my early warning indicator of filament moisture. A strong support fusing to the model despite default settings is more what I consider a “late game” moisture indicator. The warping mentioned by you is typical “mid game” moisture side effect.

Many people highlight popping and hissing as moisture indicators, but in my experience they happen well after the “Game over”. Inherent moisture in my experience is a problem in particular due to the rheological and thermal behavior changes it causes. In particular a delayed cool down, resulting in increased sagging, curling and increased warping.

&

[Bullocks]

If you have a solder station hot air / heat gun / jet lighter, you can do a quick pass to get off most of the fine stringing and turn those whitish stress-discolored parts back to green. Try it out on one you don’t care about first to get the hang of how long you need to leave it in the heat.

[Camzilla]

I did dry it once (or x2 ~12h), but I dont have a dry box, so its been printing some ~12h out in the open feels like drying is for nothing without one.

No popping or hissing, but the last print is the first time the support stuck really bad underneath the model. I’ve seen a tiny bit of sagging, but guessed it might be because supports are set to “only critical areas” and some were just too in-the-air. I have some larger prints left, I’ll dry it again just in case.

I am kind of sad if its because of moisture, then having a drybox/AMS is required rather than optional. Also having a good drying setup besides just the plate

Some good indicators to watch for though thanks!

[Camzilla]

I tried it with a hair dryer set to high on the wispy parts. Unfortunately it only curled up slightly and didn’t go away, and the thinner bits of the model started getting soft.
Might try it again to remove some of the worst light areas!

[EnoTheThracian]

@Camzilla

I did dry it once (or x2 ~12h), but I dont have a dry box, so its been printing some ~12h out in the open feels like drying is for nothing without one.

Mhm. That is usually plenty for PLA. And PLA Basic, in my experience, does not take up moisture that quickly. I’d expect it to be OK for at least a week even in my northern German weather…
Of course, printing at fine layer heights has its own challenges, but if you dry it directly before printing, then defects should not really be related to moisture.

@Camzilla

Unfortunately it only curled up slightly and didn’t go away

You can also (gently) use a brass brush. First some flame, then the brass, rinse and repeat.

&

[Bullocks]

Hair dryer’s [and heat gun] are more of a shotgun approach, for small things or specific areas I find a jet flame lighter is best. It is an acquired skill to not melt or burn – and try on your tree support waste first to see how long you can keep it in flame before discoloring

[Wwanno]

WOW!!
I think I will buy a X2D to print these miniatures as weel (PLA with PETG supports).
Sadly I only find settings for A1 (mini)
I will go with trial and error as every good noob has done before me.
Why don’t you opt for PLA if I may ask?