Nothing sticks on ANY plate on the P2S. I'm going insane!

[InfiniteWarlock]

Since purchasing the P2S I had nothing but issues. Nothing sticks to the build plate. It is so bad that I get at least one failed print per day. In a year of printing with A1s, I never had adhesion issues. Maybe a couple of misprints, in a YEAR, but that’s it. Now I get adhesion issues on the P2S DAILY. I tried everything. I can’t figure out how to make prints stick. This issue happens especially often with tall prints. Being a CoreXY printer, tall prints should be better than on a plate slinger like the A1, because the build plate does not move. But the P2S is so much worse.
I tried printing on

• Textured PEI plate
• Smooth PEI high temperature
• Cool super tak
• Biqu Cryogrip Frostbite
• Both with Magigoo and without Magigoo (on all except the supertack)

Same result. Prints just top over. I tried

• Adding brims, 5mm, 10mm, 15mm even 20mm
• Turning off fan for the first 3 layers
• Reducing the fan percentage by 5%
• Increasing first layer temperature by 5C
• Increasing build plate temperature by 10C
• Reducing speed even down to 50mm/s

Same results. Even tried different filaments (yes all dried)

• Bambu Lab Basic PLA
• Bambu Lab Matte PLA
• Elegoo basic PLA
• Elegoo matte PLA
• Bambu Lab petg hf
• Elegoo rapid petg
• Tinmorry petg eco

Same issues. Also all my build plates are cleaned the night before printing and dried with a clean microfiber cloth. They never gave me any issue on my A1s. I can print tall prints on the A1s, even if they are plate slingers, the print does not fall. I even wear nitrile gloves to avoid touching the build plates directly.

So I’m thinking this must be related to the P2S and there are only two variables that set it apart.

• It’s enclosed
• It shakes a lot more, because it shakes because of the tool head motion, which is far from the supporting table and thus has larger vibrations.

The printer sits on a heavy 100kg industrial workbench with a metal frame and two large wooden board surfaces. It even has four bags of pebbles to make it even heavier.

More details: I have run the full calibration multiple times and I always leave bed leveling and flow dynamic calibration on all the time.

So please help, I tried everything. At this point I’m considering going back to an A1.

[Yeramihi]

Wow…
That sounds like an issue with Z offset being too high… but that printer should automatically tune the Z offset before printing…

You mentioned testing with different filaments - what profile are you using for those?

Did you enable the AI functionality on P2S?

Flow Dynamic Calibration
Auto Bed Levelling

I’m new to P2S, only had it for few weeks now, but I find the bed adhesion to be excellent across different PLA, PLA+, PETG filaments I used.

However, I always keep the flow calibration and bed levelling set to auto - so far never had any issues.

Have you completed the printer calibrations from the printer menu?
On the printer touch screen:

• 4th option on the left (the hex shape thingy)
• Calibration
• Print Calibration
• • Auto Bed Leveling
• • High-temperature Bed Leveling

I completed all of those calibrations and, at least for me, the first layer is perfectly stuck to the bed.

You can find more details here: P2S First-Layer Printing Optimization Guide | Bambu Lab Wiki

[InfiniteWarlock]

I have run the full calibration multiple times and I always leave bed leveling and flow dynamic calibration on all the time.

I used the default profiles for bambu filaments, and also tweaked them with the modifications I listed in my original posts (tried them all at least once).

For elegoo and tinmorry filament, I created profiles from the defaults then adjusted the temperature, flow ratio, bed temperature and cooling for the first layers as suggested by the manufacturer (I used these profiles in the past without issues).

Another weird thing I noticed happening on the P2S only is that the brim does not seem to stick to the print. Even when the brim distance is set to 0, when I remove a print after it’s finished, the brim stays on the bed and the model detaches right away. Even the single filament lines from the brim seem to detach from each other very easily (this does not happen on the A1).

From the article, it may be something related to the nozzle distance from the build plate. I will run that test with the full build print and see what happens.

[Yeramihi]

That’s a good point.
Have you changed the nozzle? If not, you might want to double-check that it sits correctly in its place. Check the screws as per that help page.

Next thing to check would be the bed screws - also in the article. If none of your prints connect correctly to the bed, this might also be a problem - it might’ve been a little loose from the factory. It shouldn’t be, but things happen all the time.

[krellboy]

Do not tighten the bed screws as suggested above unless you are going to follow the rest of the procedure on the wiki page that follows it.

[maxim3D]

Need more a more detailed description about the adhesion failure, a photo perhaps.

[Yeramihi]

Sorry, just for clarification: I’m not suggesting them to ‘tighten the screws’. I’m asking them to check, as per the article. By that I meant - the entire article, not just part of it.

[user_3492877814]

I had the same problem and was told hair spray would make it tacky, I had a cup tossed across the room… I know these guys know better than me but since I tried that I have had no problems…sorry if I am not hearing what your problem really is…

[EnoTheThracian]

Not owning a P2, I can only give rudimentary advise.

Four things come to mind:

• Defective heat bed (sensor). Do you have a contactless thermometer to independently check the temperature across the plate?
• Since z-offset was mentioned. Don’t immediately go down that route. Use an increased line width first to verify if the issue is related to that.
• Since you mentioned shaking, did you (re-)run the printer calibration? Sorry, just seeing that yes, you did.
• The P2 has been reported as occasionaly having issues with the extruder (several posts on extruder overload). If it can not extrude properly, prints find it harder to stick. In this case, it could be a helpful diagnostic to try a print from the spool holder (assuming you are printing from an AMS).

In particular the last two would lead me to create a ticket with Bambu (as well as warranty) asap.

The log files should enable Bambu to determine if sensors are defective (heat bed temp, acceleration, nozzle pressure) or other issues (extruder) are present. A bit of gauntlet, but it is important to raise potential warranty cases quickly.

Keeping my.fingers crossed &

[InfiniteWarlock]

Alright, so I am attaching a couple of videos to show what happens. The quality is limited as there is a max upload size of 5MB.

Bambu PLA Basic Brown on BIQU CryoGrip Frostbite (no magigoo):

Tinmorry Black PETG-Eco on stock textured PEI plate (with magigoo):

I just run a full-plate first-layer test, but it looks pretty flawless to me, at least on the brown (you may see some uneven areas, but that is where the glue is, and it was out for a while so the outer part started to release with the cold air). I am attaching some photos (same filaments as above, same plates as above). The only thing, for PETG, the bottom-right corner came undone a bit as I was lifting it with a scraper, but that corner was not involved in any print failure.

After this test, I also unscrewed the ceramic heating assembly seat and re-screwed it in after making sure all screws were tightened (they were already). I also replaced the nozzle with a new one I had laying around and I am running a full re-calibration now, but I ran calibration multiple times already and the adhesion issues still occur.

I haven’t touched the heat-bed screws yet, because the first layer test seems to be of acceptable quality.

I eventually managed to print the hilt of that sword by manually adding a 4cm diameter 0.4mm thick disc as a new model part to the bottom of hilt, in addition to a brim. So the disc was printed as if it was part of the model and I had to carve my way through to uncover the hole at the bottom. A dirty solution that worked. Still, I think the issue is still hidden somewhere.

When it comes to extruding, I cannot see any visible signs of over-extrusion or under-extrusion, or any artifact of any kind, so I am doubtful whether the extruder is at fault. I hoped the first layer test would highlight some obvious fault and the z-offset would be the issue seeing as the brims seem to detach so easily, but I am not 100% convinced yet that is to blame.

At this point, I think it’s worth chasing down the defective heat bed hypothesis. What kind of thermometer should I use?

[InfiniteWarlock]

Also, I want to say I really appreciate all the help. It means a lot to me. Having discovered this hobby and having printed non-stop for a year, and reached this point where I can kinda feel like I am in the know… Makes this barrier with the P2S feels like a stone wall and it can be frustrating at times.

[maxim3D]

@InfiniteWarlock

Bambu PLA Basic Brown on BIQU CryoGrip Frostbite (no magigoo):

First of all the Frostbite plate is not compatible with adhesives. Have you used magigoo on it? That could ruin its grip. Second, what temps are you printing at? Something thin and tall like that would require some heat for best adhesion 45-55c.

[KYZ_Design]

One other thing to consider: if you change from PLA to PETG or visa versa, I find that the flushing volumes are not enough to prevent cross-contamination and causes first layers to separate. This has happened on my P2S. Other than that, things stick pretty good on the stock PEI.

[InfiniteWarlock]

First of all the Frostbite plate is not compatible with adhesives. Have you used magigoo on it? That could ruin its grip. Second, what temps are you printing at? Something thin and tall like that would require some heat for best adhesion 45-55c.

As I mentioned, I am not using magigoo on the frostbite. I already tried incresing its temperature to 50 C. But as I said, this happens across multiple build plate types and I already tried to increase build plate temperatures as mentioned in the initial post.

One other thing to consider: if you change from PLA to PETG or visa versa, I find that the flushing volumes are not enough to prevent cross-contamination and causes first layers to separate. This has happened on my P2S. Other than that, things stick pretty good on the stock PEI.

I don’t, I just switched for the first layer test. My prints are all PLA or all PETG, I don’t mix them. 95% of my prints are PLA, with the occasional utility print in PETG. Issues still occur even with multiple PLA prints in series.

[maxim3D]

Since its ripping off the item but the brim is staying attached to the plate I would try to change the brim object gap to 0 and increase its size, inner + outer. It will require some post processing but wont let go as easily.

Are you using high flow hot ends by the way?

[Bullocks]

What does the underside of a print that detached look like? Interested to see if it has a good even squish or the layers are just plopped on.

You mentioned reducing speed, which is ok, but ACCELERATION is where force is applied. It’s less dire with a coreXY but accel and jerk are still the parameters that matter when you need to be delicate, not speed.

Also, cleaning regimen correlation here:
If every plate is failing, and you clean them all with the same tools/supplies…

[InfiniteWarlock]

@maxim3D

Since its ripping off the item but the brim is staying attached to the plate I would try to change the brim object gap to 0 and increase its size, inner + outer. It will require some post processing but wont let go as easily.

Are you using high flow hot ends by the way?

@maxim3D All prints I have done so far already have the brim-object gap set to 0. Some of the prints have very large brims, like 20mm. But the brims come off very easily… too easily, as I mentioned. They have virtually zero effect on post-processing.

I am using the standard 0.4 hardened steel nozzle.

What does the underside of a print that detached look like? Interested to see if it has a good even squish or the layers are just plopped on.

@Bullocks I am attaching a few pictures of the failed prints in the other gif. The underside looks ok to me.

You mentioned reducing speed, which is ok, but ACCELERATION is where force is applied. It’s less dire with a coreXY but accel and jerk are still the parameters that matter when you need to be delicate, not speed.

I can try and reduce acceleration. It’s just odd that nobody else seems to be experiencing these issues as often as I am.

Also, cleaning regimen correlation here:
If every plate is failing, and you clean them all with the same tools/supplies…

@Bullocks As I mentioned, I did not have any failure save for a couple for an entire year using A1s. I did not change my cleaning regiment, and I don’t get any detachment on my A1 on any build plate. So cleaning is not the issue here. If it was, I would have the same issues on the A1, but I don’t.

[EnoTheThracian]

Thanks for the vid’s. That does look quite different from what I had expected. It is a fairly common failure case for tall prints which is not (so heavily) connected to the build plate as is may appear.

Since the brims remain attached to the build plate while the tree brims come away clean, I doubt that you’ll have much luck working further on the build plate.
Instead, you may want to look at the following question:

• What is actually causing thr sideways force responsible for the print failure?
  There are a few likely candidates:
• A crossing infill like grid for sparse infill. Rectilinear works better. Honeycomb is my go to for tricky prints.
• Although you mentioned that your filament is dried, in particular PETG is very sensitive. In fact, I find curling to be the first indicator of moisture in a filament. Well before stringing.
• Sometimes, drying is not enough to prevent curling. There is one key property that you can control further using two parameters: Even out cooling by lowering the deposition rate (towards the top). You can use adaptive layer heights to reduce the layer heights and/or you can reduce the print speed. Since curling is a result of uneven cooling, these parameters allow you to even out heat injection (and thereby also the heat extraction rate), reducing curling.

Hope this helps,
&

PS: I haven’t tried the linear speed reduction with height yet myself, but it may be an easy way to reduce sideways forces in line with my counter curling recommendations. The lower the speed, the lower the impact force from speed bumps (grid infill, curling) and the longer the lever arm, the larger the detachment moment.

[Bullocks]

To my eye the bottom looks ever so mildly too-high (0.01 - 0.02) but definitely acceptable and definitely should be holding.

Infill type? Make sure you’re using a non crossing type (aka not grid)

Im still gonna go with reducing accelss and jerks, the camera stabilized inside the chamber is only half the picture, does your current print kinetics (v, a, j) cause the machine to actually rock side to side etc? If so, you gotta just go slower. That thing wants to be a lever so bad, you gotta not let it

[InfiniteWarlock]

• What is actually causing thr sideways force responsible for the print failure?
  There are a few likely candidates:
• A crossing infill like grid for sparse infill. Rectilinear works better. Honeycomb is my go to for tricky prints.

@EnoTheThracian - looking at the failures, they all had gyroid infill. Even the not so tall print in black petg I showed you earlier (4cm), at low speed, had a gyroid infill.

I did have some success with tall prints, for example the following one, the guard of Frostmourne, printed in black Tinmorry PETG-Eco on the stock build plate with magigoo applied. This one has a cross-hatch infill.

• Although you mentioned that your filament is dried, in particular PETG is very sensitive. In fact, I find curling to be the first indicator of moisture in a filament. Well before stringing.

I didn’t see any curling though.

• Sometimes, drying is not enough to prevent curling. There is one key property that you can control further using two parameters: Even out cooling by lowering the deposition rate (towards the top). You can use adaptive layer heights to reduce the layer heights and/or you can reduce the print speed. Since curling is a result of uneven cooling, these parameters allow you to even out heat injection (and thereby also the heat extraction rate), reducing curling.

@EnoTheThracian not sure I follow. Doesn’t curling appear at the bottom edges? How can I reduce speed depending on the height? I recall there may be some parameter in bambu studio, or maybe it does it automatically. Ah, found it! I will definitely try this.

Why do you think these problems show so much on the P2S?

Also, look at this print. It’s thin but not very tall and has no infill because its thickness is completely covered by walls. It just seems to “slag” down rather than by jerked off. This is in Bambu Lab PLA Matte Scarlet Red on the stock Textured PEI plate.

Infill type? Make sure you’re using a non crossing type (aka not grid)
Im still gonna go with reducing accelss and jerks, the camera stabilized inside the chamber is only half the picture, does your current print kinetics (v, a, j) cause the machine to actually rock side to side etc? If so, you gotta just go slower. That thing wants to be a lever so bad, you gotta not let it

@Bullocks do you think that the P2S is exhibiting this behaviour because it’s a CoreXY, while the A1 being a plate slinger has less sideways motion? How do I measure the print kinetics? Is there a tool to do it?

The failing infill is usually gyroid, but it’s not crossing (it is very wavy though).