Surface waves/bubbles?

Fairly new to printing, the X1C is my first printer, picked it up two months ago and have 411 hours of printing.

Decided to try printing the Mandalorian armor. On the chest piece I got this strange surface defect. The two should pauldrons also had this but much smaller area and more subtle. I haven’t encountered this before these pieces. It’s somewhere between waves and bubbles? I don’t know that to call it which makes searching for information difficult.

  • Polylite CosPLA (A)
  • Generic PLA filament settings, Aux Fan off
  • 0.4 nozzle
  • 0.12mm High Quality @BBL X1C
  • 3 wall loops
  • Tree supports (slim)
  • Overhang Speeds 40, 20, 10, 10

I have attached picture of the defect as well as how it was positioned while printing. It was tough to fit so I had to angle it. As it sat in the printer this was toward the top.



Looks like over extrusion to me, what temp are you printing at?

It’s the built-in Generic PLA setting of 220.

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Try running a flow rate calibration

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This is clearly NOT over extrusion, as evidenced by the many near perfect layers beyond the problem area. It could be something similar though in that the part may be moving due to internal stressed as the filament cools, thus bring each successive layer closer to the nozzle than expected. Hard to say for sure, of course, but the overall shape and size of the model does lend itself to this type of issue — especially seeing as the shape make a fairly radical change as it transitions to / from that logo looking piece.

If this is the case, I can see a couple potential solutions. One would be to model in a thin wall support under the entirety of the overhang, such that it holds the shape in place. You wouldn’t want auto-supports for this but rather a designed in structure with a small gap (say 0.4mm) and a series of little say 3mm wide tabs spaced about 5mm apart for easy removal after print completion.

If you’re not concerned about support structure anomalies on the bottom surface, then you can use paint-on support to run a strip up the middle of the underside. It will surely help a bunch. I would do this rather than merely changing the auto support threshold angle because that will create a massive amount of unneeded support in this case. Just pain on a line about 10mm wide.

Another option would be to slice the part in half down its length and print each half horizontally, flat on the bed (if it will fit). Then glue the two halves together after printing. This will remove the overhang situation during print entirely.

Painted supports might go something like this (Tree / manual) …

Or splitting the model into two parts, something like this …

A modelled in support structure could look something like this …

I have noticed over the years that enhanced PLA filaments from various suppliers or even colors can tend to have a small amount of cooling shrinkage beyond what pure PLA tends. The newer stuff is far better in many other ways though. Some shapes are just more challenging than others. This looks like one of those to me. Like, if you tried to print this shape in this orientation in ABS, you’d have no chance, probably on any printer of any price, due to shrinkage issues during cooling.

Hopefully I don’t need to print it again as I’m hoping I can salvage this print with sanding and primer. Although I am curious if the additional support would help alleviate the issue.

Either way I’ll keep this in mind for future prints and see if it occurs again.

I decided to try printing a simple overhang test model and it was disastrous. The overhangs started curling so badly that the print head started hitting the model with a clicking sound. Eventually it got bad enough that the print head shattered the arm off the print.

This was with the aux fan on it’s default 70%:



It seemed worse for the sides closest to the aux fan, so I ran it again with the aux fan turned off, but it didn’t make any difference, still started hitting around 40 and snapped the front arm off again:


There’s a bit to unpack here…

TL;DR; Use a filament that has been tuned for your printer —OR— Experiment with print speeds, nozzle temperature and flow rates … BUT don’t mess with trying to improve fan cooling mechanisms. Those are just fine and you should not believe anyone who tells you otherwise. The Devil is in the details, here.

Firstly, that model is expected to fail beyond about 50º on most printers. It’s a “print until failure” type torture test. However, it’s not that simple. For instance, BambuLab’s PLA basic Jade White print of that model manages to fully complete on my X1C — if I use the PEI smooth build plate. The textured plate, has a harder time holding onto the part as it starts getting knocked around, not that getting knocked around at all is what we want.

There’s more to consider…

If that particular type of model print is taking place with any amount of over-extrusion (more “squirt” than ideal for this specific print), it will likely fail sooner. The additional extrusion causes added stresses in the vertical direction as the print grows taller, also contributing to curling during cooling, etc, to lesser or greater degree depending on specific filament shrinkage properties and what not.

Ambient air temperature and humidity also play a role. Aside from filament moisture issues (unlikely significant factor in this case) they contribute to the fan’s ability to cool. Ironically, dry air has less ability to cool than moist air due to the chill factor.

While on the topic of moisture though, water held in filament causes the production of tiny bubbles of steam when heated by the nozzle, which can result in what can appear to be mere over-extrusion when it’s just a small amount. I’m getting too far into the weeds and babbling science over good advice here. Suffice it to say, there are several variables at play, and understanding how to manage them all isn’t necessarily straightforward — but moisture content in PLA, especially plain white, is seldom actually an issue.

That all said, the actual photos you shared of that specific overhang test model are roughly on par for an average printer using an average filament, give or take the above considerations. People building custom printers with many hours of tuning can certainly get much better results for that particular model. On the other hand, the same excessive cooling for general printing is likely to produce weaker parts due to over cooling and the resulting lowered layer adhesion, for example. Clearly, there’s a balance to be struck.

Since you are using the “Generic PLA” settings with an unknown (to me) filament, it’s difficult to suggest specific remedies with confidence. While the filament is likely fine for most purposes, it may not be as suited to prints with large overhangs as others. Spending many hours adjusting flow rate, cooling and print speed settings will almost certainly yield improved results, but that can be quite tedious. I’m OK with such things on other printers but I hold the opinion that an expensive BambuLab printer’s very purpose for existing is to prevent all that work. I’ve never had to tune anything on my X1C when using BambuLab filaments but on my other printers, it seems nearly every damned model I print ends up needing some kind of tweaking, due to over compensating to fix some issue that then creates another in a different scenario. Just saying.

Print speed has a significant impact on this type of print. The sooner the print head returns to lay a line atop another, the less time the lower layer has to cool. Your photos seem to indicate this as an issue — aka lack of cooling BUT do not jump straight to blaming fans or cooling ducts — a common mistake. Others may suggest printable upgrades for “upgrade” cooling ducts and other modifications. I urge you to ignore those. They won’t help and will waste a lot of your time. These printers work very well as they come, under most conditions. I believe you’ve been unlucky with the particular combination of filament material, model shape, and print speed in this case.

For a potential quick fix without changing filament brand etc, try lowering the print temperature by 5 to 10ºC and also reduce the Flow rate (not Max flow rate) by about 10%. Ten percent may be too much, but it will quickly show if it was a significant contributor to the issue. Under-extruding produces weaker parts with voids between lines but also solves many other issues, helping to isolate primary causes.

While I am not a BambuLab fanboy (yet :P) and would stop short of saying, “Use the officially tested filament!” there is some value in such a suggestion when starting out with these higher-speed machines.

Hope that helps.

EDIT:

For reference, here’s a print I just did of a similar model on my X1C using BambuLab PLA Basic Jade White on a PEI smooth plate, using all standard settings, including a bed temp of 55ºC. I usually change that to 65ºC for better adhesion but forgot this time. (I never use glue on PEI surfaces, unless I need LESS stick, like for large footprint TPU prints.)


This was printed a “Normal” speed, in the center of the bed and seems to have completed the 60º section before getting knocked off. Had I done something to hold it down better, it likely would have completed — not that such would prove anything. The overhang quality up to 60º is notable however, it looks like a physically much smaller print than yours and thus has much less opportunity to build up over-extrusion artefacts.

I would be happy to print the same overhang test as yours for comparison’s sake, if you like. Just point me to it. Maybe even more data could find a way to be actually useful? (I’m aware my post is very long and probably not all that helpful. My apologies!)


Here’s another one, this time with 10% additional flow rate (0.98 to 1.078) …


Here’s one printed at 20% over extrusion – flow rate 1.176 …

Each ten percent increase has resulted in the print reaching a few layers less in height before curling and being knocked from the bed.

You can also see from this that over-extrusion alone does not cause some of the other artefacts your are experiencing — which is the real reason I wanted to produce these three prints to show — remembering that this “proof” is only valid for this specific filament, with this specific overhang model.

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I tried printing this model using Bambu PLA Matte (grey) using the 0.2mm Standard profile and it printed the entire thing successfully.
I then tried using the Polylite cosPLA using the built-in Polylite filament settings and it failed around 60. So I then tried the cosPLA using the Bambu PLA Matte settings and it worked! Something about the built-in PolyLite filament settings was causing the failure.

Here are the two successful prints side by side (Bambu PLA on left, cosPLA on right)

Comparing the two filament settings the differences are that the successful Bambu PLA settings has:

  • Higher Flow Rate (0.98 vs 0.957)
  • Higher Density (1.32 vs 1.24)
  • And higher volumetric speed (22 vs 15)
  • Extra line of Filament start G-code: “M142 P1 R35 S40” which I couldn’t find a decoding of, other than M142 being firmware dependent.

I then tried the same print with both filaments using 0.12 Fine and they both failed at the same place. Thinner layers seems to exacerbate the overhang curling.