Pretty certain that pretty much anything that is going to be running the slicer is going to be x86-x64 based and in the vast majority of cases also windows based, so anything that is going to be likely to be running this server is also likely to be windows and x86-x64 based, unless you’re hosting your slicer on a in ipad for some reason
Most workplace machines are also going to be the same, the only places you’re going to see any kind of variance are the ones where apple products are likely to be the more common device given that apple is in to what, its 4th generation of ARM silicone now?
So yeah i’m willing to bet that the majority of end user facing hardware is going to be x86-x64 in most workplaces yes
It does suck that they are not launching with ARM and Linux support, but I think it’s disingenuous to say x86 is not the standard for right now. Supposedly according to Statcounter, Windows makes up ~70% of the total market share of OSes, with MacOS at 15%. Granted there is Windows on ARM laptops but they are still not popular in the grand scheme of things. Also granted there’s still some people using x86 Macs that are only 4 years old.
As well, the most popular server frontend OSes TrueNAS and Unraid do not have ARM releases.
This should’ve launched with Mac and Linux support, but I imagine BambuLabs has the statistics of how many people downloaded BambuStudio and what platform those users are on and decided to focus on the majority of the affected demographic they were aiming for with this launch.
Not disingenuous, but I was being a bit pedantic on that one.
“most devices”
ARM over 230 billion chips produced
RISC-V over 10 billion or something
The quoted statement reads a little ridiculous without the correct nuance. Adjust it to say “PCs” instead of devices and it’s fine. But yes, most of those devices aren’t going to run a “Bambu local server”, so I didn’t press the point hard. (I’m not sure the future for x86/x64 is so guaranteed either, “at this point”.)
I’m not a “print farm expert”, but I was under the impression that using Linux is very common for people doing this. I just asked an “AI” and even that thing lead off with “Most 3D printer farms typically use Linux as their operating system”.
Well, I don’t know where it’s getting that from, but that’s interesting! This software is for printer farms.
Linux supports ARM, and a lot of low-power single board computers are ARM. If I were running a print farm with BL printers, it’s possible that I would have been out of luck.
Bottom line though and back to the real topic, when I purchased a BL Printer, it worked with my devices. BL has no ethical prerogative to make a device that I purchased incompatible with my environment using a firmware update after I’m the (supposed) owner. Part of that is a working offline, real LAN mode. Another part of that is that I’m not forced to change operating systems to run some trashy software - because the former owner of my device says so.
Feels like just another knife in the back. Imagine if this stuff only worked on Linux and the Windows release was “in progress”, but they went ahead and rushed this firmware update out anyway. How should we take that? Certainly not quietly - BL deserves the criticism, and they’re lucky if that’s the only consequence.
It should be illegal to unilaterally alter a device after you’ve sold it. It’s not your property anymore.
Actually thats pretty standard, operating systems get deprecated from time to time, its the same reason steam no longer runs on windows 7 at all, if a company chooses to cut off support for an OS they can and do, its annoying sure but its not unheard of at all
Oh dear, your reading comprehension combined with insistence on “windows” is doing you no favours. I assume you know that getting from win 7 to win 10 is matter of upgrade, not a different os? Linux and windows are different os.
Neither bambu connect nor local server work on linux. All pcs in my home run linux, my phone run linux (android), most people in my company use linux (with rest using mac). Even if this rushed, misguided firmware change wasn’t roadblock, even if one could accept the useless friction generating electron bloatware, the fact that the upgrade makes it useless for us is game over.
To reverse the analogy and make it clear: It’s not standard to require you to switch to Linux (or the other way around), or Mac, to continue using the printer you purchased, which worked perfectly fine when you first obtained it. As @Johnny_Bit points out this isn’t just a simple upgrade.
If BL wants to drop the Linux share of the 3DP market, that’d be their choice. But their software should say that up front, and the printer sales pages should have Windows as a system requirement. I promise you I (and others) wouldn’t even be here if they had done that!
It’s unethical (and should be illegal, IMO) to unilaterally drop support like that after they’ve sold devices to people. (Even “temporarily” for an unknown time, which is what they’ve effectively done, since none of this vaporware is ready yet and maybe it’ll never even be released.)
If they want to go in that direction they’re free to do it with new products (or have an alternate firmware edition), so that consumers can know what they’re getting up front at the time of purchase. Not doing a bait and switch on us for released products isn’t asking much, and I think it used to be the norm.
Sure, but that doesn’t really change that its unsupported now, meaning people who want to continue to use said software would need to install a supported OS, they are free to stop developing versions for mac and linux if they so choose, and other companies do it where they see that there really isn’t enough of a userbase to justify the added costs in time and money
Like i get that its going to annoy some people but that is just how it goes sometimes
Yup, but connect is listed as being supported at some point, its just not ready now and given that the linux install base is likely pretty small by comparison it makes sense to get the windows version working properly first before then working on getting that same tool to work properly under linux
Congrats?
That isn’t enough to bring the market share of the OS up to a point where it becomes a priority, eventually they plan to support it, but its not going to be the one they work on first
For you sure, but you can also just, you know, not update until they have gotten around to making the linux version
Like, if you guys had a decent desktop market share then maybe, but you’re like 1/5th of the size of apples desktop market share, which isn’t even that big
Besides, you weren’t “dropped” you’re just not high up the list when it comes to the beta version of the software, you’re listed as getting one eventually
There is no bait and switch though, you’re taking offence that an OPTIONAL update for a piece of BETA software doesn’t support your OS that has a sub 4% market share of desktops
Aside from the fact I think both Lou and Johnny_Bit are flogging their (dead) high horse on “technically right” points… let’s just remember that the majority of server installs are, what OS again? So in the context of Bambu Local Server, this seems somewhat strange an exclusion. However, it would probably be a good idea to do some homework as to what it actually is, as it seems to only be available on request (or at least the SDK is), and is targeting enterprise users, not the average user. So not likely to be run on a raspberry pi.
And yes the update is optional (more on that in a moment). no, it is no longer BETA if it is release rather than BETA firmware. And, no, it is not actually optional if you have problems with a bug in the firmware, and the first question support asks is “are you running the latest firmware? no? sorry, we can’t help you then!”.
Now, I’m another penguin user here, but I realise for client side software Windows is the easy majority target. So I am quite able to use a windows evaluation VM or WINE if necessary to run a windows only piece of software. I may grumble and moan a bit, but such is the consequences of choosing to be different to the majority/mainstream. But, I’m lazy, so I just dual boot.
This has nothing to do with market share of anything.
It has to do with the fact that it worked perfectly fine with my environment when it was purchased. It’s a variant of the same issue that’s all over this thread, that BL was going to break offline LAN mode, after locking in LAN mode customers.
If they want to drop support for Linux, whatever. But you don’t do that retroactively after customers have already invested in their product line and ecosystem. Unless they are prepared to offer us refunds.
What I was suggesting is that we should be legally protected from the unilateral modification of the core functionality our property. It’s nothing to do with legally requiring support for a certain operating system (I’ve never heard such an argument from anyone, for obvious reasons).
The only thing that mitigates the current lack of Linux support is the fact that the firmware update can be declined (at least for now). But forcing us to forgo firmware updates will eventually come at a cost to us, so let’s not pretend that’s a good or fair solution.
You’re pretending that the firmware update is entirely optional. It’s optional*, with a big asterisk next to it. In other words, it’s only optional if you’re willing to forgo all future firmware updates. So while it’s kinda, for now, optional, there are consequences:
No bug fixes
No firmware support for new accessories
No firmware improvements
No warranty or support because we’re on old firmware
And maybe other stuff I’m neglecting. We don’t know what firmware updates might be important in the future. We’ll see if something important comes along.
Bambu Lab’s software policy is a clear showstopper for me.
Why?
I bought my first X1C about 3 months ago to familiarize myself with the printer. I am doing this to build up a side business. My next step is to build an initial print farm of 5-6 printers and add more printers as needed. Fortunately, I started exactly where Bambu Lab started with its supposed “security updates”. Although I had real doubts at the beginning because Bambu Lab is a Chinese company, I wanted to give them a chance to prove me wrong by showing me that they take the community seriously and develop in their interest.
From my professional cooperation with Chinese colleagues, I was able to get to know the mentality and now know that it is completely ok to lie to save face. We western people simply don’t know this and are therefore always puzzled.
What I would like to say is that I cannot cope with software development in the wrong direction, away from the community. My consequence is a minimal private use of the X1C and further observation of the further software development of Bambu Lab.
I simply don’t have the confidence in this company at the moment to build my side business on it. If there is no clear signal in the short term that the community is being taken seriously, I will equip my print farm with devices from other manufacturers.
Sorry, Bambu Lab, you have really disappointed me in just 3 months!
When I first signed up here, I hoped to be a little more positive and supportive than I’ve felt compelled to be. Took a few months longer for me, but I feel the same.
Starting to make a dent, but has a long way to go. So I don’t see this as any real argument as something they should or must support. More, a would be nice.
Agreed. Perhaps it is still early days.
What I do find more puzzling on that front is that they didnt seem to focus on using something platform agnostic, thus enabling cross-platform and cross-architecture right from the start. Then again, like everyone else here, I don’t have the data Bambu has as to their target market, so this could be me wishfully thinking the penguin has a seat at this table.
Did you or did you not say this? this implies that you think they should be legally required to support something that ends up being a net loss because its no longer deemed a viable market to service rather than unilaterally dropping it
Sure, but it still needs to be worth it for them to support it, if the userbase dwindles to the point where its not really worth it to support them, they can’t really be expected to be forced to do it and they will drop support for it, it sucks for those users but at the end of the day businesses are not a charity
Unless the product stops working entirely i very much doubt they would have to offer you anything, and the previous firmware and software version still works, ergo you would still have a functioning product, you are not guaranteed updates
Right, but you only own the hardware, the software is and always remains the property of bambu labs, you never owned that, section 4 of the ToS you agreed to
If your printer is offline that can be declined indefinitely as your printer won’t even know the update exists
The current printers are basically feature complete at this point, the X1C exits feature update support in may 2027, P1P in november 2027, but i doubt there will be much in the way of new features added directly to the printer outside of new filaments, so you really aren’t actually losing anything at this point, if this were a newly released printer with a solid 7 years of updates ahead of it maybe you would have more of a point, but its not and for the most part we both know there likely isn’t going to be any real feature improvements
Most of which aren’t likely to happen outside of bug fixes, they killed off the plans for the expansion board so there likely aren’t going to be any new accessories for the older machines that are going to actually require the printer to do anything, things like plates will be added to the slicer rather than needing to be part of the firmware update
Dude, I don’t think I’ve even had this printer a full year yet!
^ This was the straw man–never said anything about legislating support for any OS.
I’m rarely the guy who ever calls for a government to get involved with anything, but one thing they’re supposed to be doing (so they claim) is consumer protection. If there were some law for this, obviously it’d need some kind of cutoff date. Doesn’t matter anyway - it won’t happen, because legislators don’t really care about such things unless it benefits them in some way.
Its not a straw man though, its a simple business practice, why do you think nobody makes games specifically for linux these days? UT2004 shipped with both a linux and windows build on the DVD, but these days nobody bothers because the market share for linux literally does not justify the development time
Software requires a userbase, and linux just ain’t it for pretty much anything mainstream, you can call it a straw man but the facts do not lie, where there isn’t any profit there isn’t any real development effort
Right, but the consumer protection you want is for companies to have to continue to support an extreme minority just because they did it once, do you know what happens if you actually get that put in to law?
The end result is you don’t get looked at to begin with, because nobody is going to be forced to commit to service an extreme niche, so you would end up with less than you already get because if there are minimum requirements to offer support for linux lots of people just aren’t going to bother if they aren’t going to be able to make atleast enough to pay for the development time
And while it sucks for the small group of you that exists, even you guys know you’re not actually worth much in terms of revenue compared to even macOS which only holds a 15% share of the desktop market
