Very specific bed adhesion problem area

I’m hoping someone can help me understand what’s going on.

P2S, a couple of months old.
Standard included PEI build plate cleaned with 99% Isopropyl alcohol.
Multiple PLA filaments used with the same results.
Standard Bambu P2S profile, bed temp at 55c.
Auto-leveling is ON

One specific area of the bed seems to have adhesion issues on nearly every print.

It’s like the bed is super hot in this area but I’ve scanned the bed edge-to-edge with a laser thermometer and it’s consistent within a degree or two. I’ve examined the PEI plate closely and see zero issues in this area.

Is it possible there is a coating at play that I can’t see that has been eroded from this part of the plate?

Stop cleaning with isopropyl, it just spreads grease around.

Dish soap, hot water, scrub with a nylon brush, then dry with paper towel.

4 Likes

Try adding Auxiliary Fan Diffuser, and dont use isopropyl, rather hot water and dish detergent, as isopropyl does not clear grease, just moves it around.

5 Likes

Don’t do that anymore. Especially textured plates can slowly build up residue in the valleys. Especially if washed in by isoprop. Prints will stick for a while… until they don’t. At all.
Then, a really thorough deep clean is needed. Even repeatedly. Lots of warm water, plenty of dishwashing liquid, a stiff and clean (!) brush and lots of muscle grease.

As they are consumables, they will of course give up completely at some point (from my experience: measured in years). As a final try, a good thorough clean with steel wool can re-life a plate. Only do that if the alternative is to bin the plate though.

:crossed_fingers: & :four_leaf_clover:

Addendum: The pic shows a classic fingerprint. Probably an area where grime has accumulated in grooves as it was washed in by the isoprop with an established cleaning routine? Time to get that stiff, clean brush and really get down into the grooves…

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What happens if you flip the plate over?

Man, you guys are quick. I didn’t even have time to fix my posting errors before the replies started coming in. I’ll scrub it good with soap and water and try a test print. My gut says that’s not it but I’m willing to give it a shot.

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Might be just the picture but the whole layer looks weird to me. Really bumpy and that one part is just the worst of it…

The first layer should be smooth with visible print lines like this:

Maybe you can find an answer here:

Bad advice, the printer will be upside down.

Like me with the ladies!

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I can report that scrubbing the heck out of the plate with dish soap and hot water did not fix the issue. Same issue at the same location. Maybe a defective build plate coating? I’ll try the plate from one of my other p2s’s after this partial print finishes (goofed object has been skipped) and see if that sprints smoothly.

Luckily the print did not flip upside down but there was a momentary anti-matter spike in the region of the printer.

And, the print did adhere fine in all areas to the left of center. I just printed half of the plate on that side for this follow up test and, of course, the trouble area is on the right side of the down side now so the final test will be to print something on the right-of-center area of the 2nd side and see if the issue occurs there.

If it doesn’t then there just has to be some erosion in that area of the “bad” side that is invisible to the eye and touch. If it persists on the right side of the 2nd side then there is some issue that passes through the entire plate in that area.

Thanks krellboy!

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To me; it looks similar to when Bed Mesh Level gets 1 point drastically wrong [for many reasons]

clean the nozzle tip real well and then do another bed level calibration? Perhaps even a factory reset then calibrate, I honestly dont know which calibration in which bambus printer lineup get that info anymore.

I am posting this pic as an example when LOTS of Bed Mesh level points are drastically wrong [sensor failed, elegoo centauri carbon]

edit: I would add that while I was debugging the above issue, I could see the Z screws visibly turning a ridiculous amount when it was painting those sections of bottom surface, so if its bed mesh, you should be able to see that too with your eyeballs.

Hey there… I think this is the PERFECT time for me to step in. I have a great page of information from top 3d printer brands in how to clean PEI plates. I will link the document for you. Just so you know, the document was specifically who used GLUE way too much, and you build plate looks to be in much much better condition than his.

Official Bambu Labs Recomendation

https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/filament-acc/acc/pei-plate-clean-guide

We recommend cleaning the printing surface with a basic sponge and dishwashing detergent, rinsing it with warm water, and drying it with a regular paper towel.

The reason why we recommend detergent for cleaning the textured plate is due to its textured surface. Alcohol might just spread the oils on the print surface instead of removing it. Detergent acts as a degreaser and using a sponge or scrubber to wash the plate will ensure the detergent reaches inside the textured surface to clean it and improve adhesion.

After applying the dishwashing detergent to the Textured PEI plate, it’s important to scrub it with a sponge or a brush to completely remove any leftover models and grease.

Also make sure that you avoid touching the print surface with your fingers and try to handle the plate from the sides.

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Official Creality Store Recommendation

https://store.creality.com/blogs/all/how-to-clean-3d-printer-bed

Start by letting your printer bed cool down. Once it’s safe to touch, use a scraper or putty knife to gently remove any bits of filament or debris that are loosely attached to the bed.

Then wipe down the entire surface of the bed with isopropyl alcohol to remove any oils, fingerprints, and leftover residue. Use a soft sponge or cloth with dish soap to gently scrub the surface. Rinse it thoroughly with warm water and dry it with a clean cloth.

If you handle the bed, try to do so with clean hands or wear gloves to minimize transferring oils to the surface. For PEI surfaces, avoid using acetone as it can damage the material. Stick to isopropyl alcohol for routine cleaning.

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Official Prusa Research Forum Recommendation

https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-hardware-firmware-and-software-help/pei-bed-cleaning-methods/#post-141005

Consumer-grade solvents won’t break grease down completely, just enough to ease removal. Unless you’ve both broken the grease down and physically removed it, adhesion will remain poor.

Hot water and dish soap are FAR more effective for the following reason. Volume. There’s just so much more soap and water being used to wash and rinse that it is more likely to break down grease sufficiently and wash it away.

Soap is a surfactant and causes material to lift from surfaces. Water acts to dilute the soap and rinse soap and lift material away.

Hot Water wash: Handle the bed only by the edges. Wash the bed in hot water, use a fresh paper towel as a wash cloth, with a few drops of plain dish soap (Dawn, unscented, no anti-bacterial, etc.). Rinse well in hot water - if you have very soft water, rinse a bit longer. Dry the bed with a fresh paper towel. Handle the bed only by the edges.

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Official Additive+ Recommendation

https://additiveplus.com/how-to-clean-your-3d-printer-bed-and-remove-3d-prints/?srsltid=AfmBOoofD7oLWaYF_ZwwG0dsqJF0JMzXMaztGMhtPRHeiionxzNplXRs

Polyetherimide (PEI). Strong, durable surface, works well for lots of filaments. Sensitive to IPA/acetone

PEI should not be exposed to harsh chemicals or IPA and acetone at all often. Instead, wash thoroughly with warm water and soap. Make sure to NOT touch the build plate after washing it, as it will get oily fingerprints back on it.

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Official Snapmaker Recommendation

https://www.snapmaker.com/blog/how-to-clean-your-3d-printer-bed/

Warm Water & Soap: In cases where the stains are tougher or have heavier residues, warm water with mild dish soap usually helps. The bed should be rinsed and dried thoroughly before use. Don’t soak parts attached to the printer.

PEI-coated surfaces are sensitive to oils and fingerprints, so avoid touching them directly after cleaning.

IPA is fine for general cleaning, but when using it to clean with low adhesion, you might as well wash it in warm, soapy water. Use acetone only occasionally to revive it. The more you do this, however, the more the sheet will degrade.

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Official Sovol Recommendation

https://www.sovol3d.com/blogs/news/how-to-clean-build-plate-safely-easy-steps-3d-printer?srsltid=AfmBOorICS-EAXXbVGvAvUnNZK0cXfJ4V8SQWo8yBohfTPPoGCHk4k_6

Warm water and a mild detergent soap make a safe cleaning solution for most build plates.

Use a basic sponge to spread the soap. This helps break down oils and leftover glue. Rinse the plate with warm water after you clean it. Make sure your soap does not have oils or moisturizers. Avoid acetone. It can damage PEI surfaces and other coatings.

If you notice stubborn spots, let the plate soak for a few minutes. This helps loosen up any stuck-on material. Remember, specialized cleaners can sometimes work better for tough stains, but plain dish soap is safe and effective for regular cleaning.

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Resources

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp9YtXFFOMQ&t=2s

https://www.gambody.com/blog/helpful-tips-for-cleaning-your-3d-printer-bed-pei-glass-magnetic/?srsltid=AfmBOooSm15dl4cDTIe-9

Rv1HWBotsjRyb_tZ6p-3dbEw9JYfr-3gpvw

https://www.eufymake.com/blogs/maintenance-guides/how-to-clean-3d-printer-bed

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In closing, it seems to be widely agreed upon that glue should only be used when you don’t have a specialized print bed, when the print bed is low quality, when the print bed is of a CERTAIN material, or when printing objects from materials that adhere much too well or way too little. (Nylon and TPU)

Acetone seems to be looked down upon by most, and should probably not be used at all. Isopropyl alcohol has proven itself to be a good way of ‘loosening’ difficult grease marks, but overtime it harms PEI plates.

Washing the plate reasonably often, (three-five times per month) is overall the most agreed upon way to have incredible adhesion, super good first layer quality, and unharmed build plates.

Too much glue, (more than a thin sparse layer after a wash), has proven itself to lead to WORSE adhesion, WORSE print quality, unstable printing environments, and crusty build plates.

Solution? If you MUST use glue, use it sparingly and wash the build plate often. But it’s not necessary! By not touching the build plate with bare hands at all, by buying an enclosed printer to reduce dust, and by not using glue, you will succeed in having the best of every world.

 NO					           YES
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I have to disagree with much of the blanket advice on not using glue. I use it on most prints especially on prints with lots of small color islands. It helps keep things stuck down. Plus, as my build plates age, it keeps them working as good as new.

I’ve never had “crusty” build plates. The glue washes right off. It protects the plate, keeps things stuck down, and also makes separation easier. With a layer of glue, the work really doesn’t even touch the build plate. It’s all water soluble so cleans up easily. It would just rinse off if I didn’t speed things up with light scrubbing.

It’s hard to give blanket advice on this and have it be useful. Much depends on the part being printed, the build plates, and the filament used. I’ve had things I simply couldn’t print without glue. Now that the two PEI plates I use most often have lost most of their “stiction”, there’s a lot I simply cannot print without glue.

Your experience is obviously different for some reason. What I would say is if people are having issues with things staying stuck down to give glue a try. Stick on smooth plates and liquid on textured. It’s a trap to blanket shun glue. You might not need it but it may help others. My prints come out beautiful with glue. Not everyone may need it but if prints aren’t sticking well and the build plate is actually clean, glue might be the answer for many.

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I definitely see where you’re coming from. I have used glue in the past for ABS parts that adhere too well or for small details in first layers (like you stated), and the issue really only starts if you are not washing the build plate regularly, if you’re using way too much glue, or if you’re attempting to clean without soap and water. The glue acts as an insulator that keeps the warm textured PEI finish from adhering to the extruded plastic. I also see where you’re coming from on the bit about build plate degradation. For me though, the key is to only use a thin layer of glue and to clean and re-apply regularly. Thank you for your contribution!

-Leaf