36 Plates Limit and the Diorama Contest

[Bjoern_3D]

So I hit the 3mf file’s 36 plates limit with my model (link) for the Diorama Contest (link). Now, this is not a request to allow for more plates in the file, rather when your contest theme reads…

We’re looking for complete miniature environments that tell a cohesive story. Your entry should go beyond a single model—think layered landscapes, character positioning, environmental details, and scene composition.

…there should be a way to better organize such a “model of models” and we actually have it; it’s called a collection. Maybe next time we have a contest like this, we can submit a “main model” that includes a link to a collection for the rest of the models to create the complete contest submission. This way no programming is required. The collection cover photo could be the complete scene and the individual models will be linked from there.

That way I could have submitted the building frame with a link to a collection that included this model as well as one for interior walls and decoration, another for furniture, and one for figurines. In fact, I’m doing a similar thing at the moment already, so here are two examples of how I’d imagine it working…

https://makerworld.com/en/collections/6802515-applique-set-05
https://makerworld.com/en/collections/6802544-applique-set-06

We’re allowed up to five models per contest at the moment, so it could be a requirement that all other models in the collection be submitted to the contest as well. That takes care of people not linking to old models not eligible for the contest, because they were not created during the contest period.

So anyways, that’s my suggestion… I know others have used print profiles to split their models apart; however, that is actually against the print profile guidelines (link) #10 under “prohibited practices”… so you’re running the risk of having them taken down.

But you also have to consider the less experienced users. They see my global settings for layer height set to .08 even though on the first 5 plates the objects are set to .2 individually. It’s just easier with .08 because the rest of the plates will require it. Now less experienced users might start messing with the profile or start giving you bad profile ratings to begin with. AMS color is another thing… my “model of models” lists 6 at the moment, but no single plate uses more than 4 colors individually.

[Cypherous]

A number of those plates could be condensed to a single plate or included on other plates

The limit is likely there to be in line with any other printers and slicers that might try to open it given this is based on prusa slicer those changes would likely need to happen upstream

There isn’t anything preventing you from adding a second or 3rd 3MF file once you post the original one as you can edit the model page and just upload them in the raw model files section as that entirely supports 3MF files, you would just need to tell people to download the additional files from the STL option, it would mean you couldn’t print the whole thing from the app but your alternative there is to create a part 2 of the model as a second upload entirely

[Bjoern_3D]

@Cypherous

A number of those plates could be condensed to a single plate or included on other plates

Not really, because there will be either mismatches in layer height or color changes and an A1 mini doesn’t have enough room to efficiently do print by object instead of print by layer.

@Cypherous

The limit is likely there to be in line with any other printers and slicers that might try to open it given this is based on prusa slicer those changes would likely need to happen upstream

Like I already said…

@Bjoern_3D

this is not a request to allow for more plates in the file, rather

@Bjoern_3D

…there should be a way to better organize such a “model of models” and we actually have it; it’s called a collection. Maybe next time we have a contest like this, we can submit a “main model” that includes a link to a collection for the rest of the models to create the complete contest submission.

@Cypherous

alternative there is to create a part 2 of the model as a second upload entirely

Yes, let’s do exactly that… but as part of a collection, so that it’s clear that it is not a second submission to the contest that you’d want to have a chance to win as well. Currently, this is not what a “part 2” model would be seen as.

@Cypherous

There isn’t anything preventing you from adding a second or 3rd 3MF file

Yes, there is… the profile guidelines.

@Cypherous

and just upload them in the raw model files section as that entirely supports 3MF files

…yeah, but you see the problem with that, don’t you…

@Cypherous

it would mean you couldn’t print the whole thing from the app

exactly…

[Cypherous]

@Bjoern_3D

and an A1 mini doesn’t have enough room to efficiently do print by object instead of print by layer.

Then maybe the A1M isn’t the target demographic for this model, i’ve excluded the A1M in designs before because the printer just isn’t suitable for that model, it has limitations as you yourself recognise

@Bjoern_3D

Yes, let’s do exactly that… but as part of a collection, so that it’s clear that it is not a second submission to the contest that you’d want to have a chance to win as well.

So just don’t enter it as part of the competition?

@Bjoern_3D

exactly…

Sure, but even as a collection you are still going to have to go to each page to then print it, the issue then becomes how does bambu recognise this and not grant points for downloads twice for the single model while still making it easy enough to print from the app without it turning in to a convoluted mess

Like i said above, personally i would just exclude the A1M when it doesn’t make sense to support it, i appreciate that you seemingly very much want to support it so kudos to you there, but i am sure that you could manage to print a number of these parts by object even on the A1M

For example the connectors on plate 5 aren’t going to care what layer height is used so could go with anything else like plate 33 which isn’t going to be concerned with layer height as it appears to be lots of flat surfaces

Plate 6 and 7 seem to be identical so you could save a plate there, the ceiling and back doors plates could have a dupe removed and then be combined with a note to tell people to print it twice, same appears to be true at a first glance of the inside walls on plates 18 and 22

So there appear to be changes you can make to reduce the total plate count, yes it means you’re going to have to write a couple more lines in your instructions, although you will already be wanting assembly instructions anyway

[Bjoern_3D]

@Cypherous

Then maybe the A1M isn’t the target demographic for this model,

So, you’re saying I shouldn’t have designed this model? Because an A1M is all I got sitting here.

@Cypherous

i’ve excluded the A1M in designs before because the printer just isn’t suitable for that model, it has limitations as you yourself recognise

Limitations that you can easily work around. I mean I did design and print it on an A1M… and 35x17x20 would require two plates on all other printers as well (not including the H2D)

@Cypherous

@Bjoern_3D

Yes, let’s do exactly that… but as part of a collection, so that it’s clear that it is not a second submission to the contest that you’d want to have a chance to win as well.

So just don’t enter it as part of the competition?

Like I said, it’s my suggestion… something for Bambu / MW to consider the next time they want their “contest model” to be a model of models.

@Cypherous

For example the connectors on plate 5 aren’t going to care what layer height is used so could go with anything else like plate 33 which isn’t going to be concerned with layer height as it appears to be lots of flat surfaces

Ultimately the connectors don’t even care what color they are, so yeah, I get .2 connectors (which they are on both plates) in white and gold by putting them on plate 33, but then they end up under the ceiling and the floor anyway. Looks like amateur hour as far as the print plate distribution but like you said…

@Cypherous

yes it means you’re going to have to write a couple more lines in your instructions

…yeah, but not good instructions… basically, the same kind of instructions programmers that don’t understand variable scope give you because they declared everything to be global.

@Cypherous

although you will already be wanting assembly instructions anyway

…in fact, they’re pretty much “print the plates in order”… granted a bit more than that. But instead of saying print 1-5 and use the connectors on plate 5 to connect 1+2 and 3+4, I now have to say… jump ahead and print 33… don’t worry about the door, we’ll get to that later and use the connectors from there… SERIOUSLY?!? That’s the kind of GOTO and GOSUB spaghetti code you got from so-so programmers in the 70s and 80s.

@Cypherous

Plate 6 and 7 seem to be identical so you could save a plate there

Not according to what Bambu wants in their print profiles. I guess part of the reason is that now the total count is off by 2h and 20g for the profile.

@Cypherous

the ceiling and back doors plates could have a dupe removed and then be combined with a note to tell people to print it twice

The ceiling has an inner and outer part… unless you mean the outside has two mirrors (left and right) on them… then why stop there… just tell the users to print plate 1 a second time after you mirror on the x-axis. Same for the rest with symmetry. Now I can write in the instructions, print 1 then mirror it, print 3, mirror it print again, and use the white/gold connectors from 30 plates in the future to connect them. Great, how not obfuscated at all!

@Cypherous

same appears to be true at a first glance of the inside walls on plates 18 and 22

Same for those… there are 45 degree angles were the walls connect, so you just have to mirror the model of course. Ultimately, let’s toss everything into a .zip folder and done. But like you already said…

@Cypherous

it would mean you couldn’t print the whole thing from the app

@Cypherous

So there appear to be changes you can make to reduce the total plate count, yes it means you’re going to have to write a couple more lines in your instructions, although you will already be wanting assembly instructions anyway

Well, I do have assembly instructions and they make sense because they are in order of the way you print things… not some IKEA dump. Your way, the time and weight for the print profile become meaningless… and I don’t have any more information that others as far as how the contests are judged… pretty sure that might have an impact.

If I just wanted the model to look nice, I’d have printed it single color, horizontally instead of vertically for better details, and than painted them afterwards…

BUT none of this was my question really. In my world you’d be allowed to use print profiles to group parts of the model… according to the print profile guidelines that is not the case though. Seeing how that doesn’t work, next best thing I can think of is for MW to put in the instructions to use a link to a collection in the main model whenever a contest requires a “model of models” design…

…I mean I can easily find you chairs similar to mine that are just one model… the chandelier could be a model, etc, etc…

[Cypherous]

@Bjoern_3D

So, you’re saying I shouldn’t have designed this model? Because an A1M is all I got sitting here.

No, but you can still design with the A1 in mind, nothing stopping you from printing it on the mini, you are however not restricted to only uploading profiles of printers you own, i don’t own a mini but i have a mini set up in the slicer so i can check sizes accordingly, i rarely print my models in the order the plates are listed in the final upload

Being “best printed on x” doesn’t exclude it from being printed on the mini, just that it might take the end user a little more work or result in using more plates than are supported, which again you should raise as an issue upstream with prusa slicer as they might decide thats a fair addition and add it on themselves, at which point both BS and Orca can follow suit

@Bjoern_3D

…yeah, but not good instructions…

I mean it would be the same instructions the likes of lego use, where they tell you to build 2 of the same multiple part object, just saying print plate x two times should be easy enough to follow along for people, i had to do it for a model i printed recently because i didn’t want to bother with multiple plates of the same object, only i inserted the “print twice” in to the plate name so it also becomes more obvious in the app

@Bjoern_3D

…in fact, they’re pretty much “print the plates in order”… granted a bit more than that. But instead of saying print 1-5 and use the connectors on plate 5 to connect 1+2 and 3+4, I now have to say… jump ahead and print 33

Not really, you’re still going to want them to print everything anyway, so telling them to print all the mandatory plates prior to starting assembly isn’t that uncommon

Granted in this case it would be a pain to re-arrange because BS/Orca doesn’t let you change plate order, i really wish it did because i’ve been caught out by it before when i’ve added parts to a model where there were enough parts that redoing the entire project was going to be annoying

@Bjoern_3D

Not according to what Bambu wants in their print profiles. I guess part of the reason is that now the total count is off by 2h and 20g for the profile.

The profile will update when you replace the 3mf, atleast mine always seem to update later with the revised numbers, although one thing to point out when replacing a profile, change the name of the file, i usually just stick a “v2” in there as i’ve had times where its not actually replaced the model file correctly and still ends up serving the old profile

@Bjoern_3D

The ceiling has an inner and outer part… unless you mean the outside has two mirrors (left and right) on them… then why stop there… just tell the users to print plate 1 a second time after you mirror on the x-axis.

No i’m referring to the 2 “ceiling outsides” on plate 9, they atleast from a visual glance appear to be identical, so you could get away with just having a “print twice” while having one of the 2 doors from plate 24 on it, seeing as you need 2 of each of those single parts it would save some space

Mirroring is not something i would recommend which is why i didn’t mention the mirrored plates and am mostly just focussing on the parts a novice user can’t get wrong

[Bjoern_3D]

@Cypherous

@Bjoern_3D

…in fact, they’re pretty much “print the plates in order”… granted a bit more than that. But instead of saying print 1-5 and use the connectors on plate 5 to connect 1+2 and 3+4, I now have to say… jump ahead and print 33

Not really, you’re still going to want them to print everything anyway, so telling them to print all the mandatory plates prior to starting assembly isn’t that uncommon

As far as this model, it’s 80+ hours for all of it to print… I doubt that anybody is gonna stay up all night for three days just to have all the parts done first. The first four plates have to be glued together in order for you to have a base and a top to work with. Depending on the glue you use, you might have to let it sit over night. Best case scenario, the first weekend working on it, you get flooring and ceiling done.

If you don’t have base and top, then there is no place for you to glue the outer walls. Ditto with the inner walls, no outer wall then there’s nowhere for you to put them. Trust me, as far as this model is concerned, there is a correct order to print it in and that’s the way the plates are arranged; very much on purpose I might add.

And though I appreciate you looking for ways to squeeze out an extra plate or two… that’s really not what my issue is. Normally, you only submit one model… my whole issue was with the model of models for the competition. If this was any old upload, I’d provide one model that’s a modular frame for a dollhouse and then various other models for people to choose from.

But since this isn’t a modular dollhouse but rather a diorama for a diorama competition, I’d like to have a more organized way next time a competition like this (model of models; repeating myself) comes around and there are logical components that would warrant an individual model/print profile… and those models then get aggregated into one collection.

@Cypherous

so you could get away with just having a “print twice” while having one of the 2 doors from plate 24 on it

Unfortunately, the colors don’t match and the parts are too big to do a by model and have the ceiling print first and then the door. Also no place to put the door, so it’s about as random as finding your connectors on place 33.

@Cypherous

No, but you can still design with the A1 in mind, nothing stopping you from printing it on the mini, you are however not restricted to only uploading profiles of printers you own

Why would I design with another bed slinger in mind though? Lowest common denominator is 18cm^3 on the mini and no AMS, so color changes by layer. Now, here we’re of course missing the input from MW as far as the competitions. Either I’m supposed to design for the lowest common denominator or on the other extreme come up with something that looks nice. In that case, vertical instead of horizontal orientation on an XY core printer… which I don’t have.

The three figurines in the model pictures are hand painted… are they gonna look the same with an AMS or even a bunch of them chained together and let’s just pretend you have a bunch of filament in different colors and know how much bleeds through each color for gradient… basically being a human hueforge… it would never look the same. But is this a printing or a painting contest.

Anyways, even with a couple of extra plates squeezed out… you may have noticed there is no couch or table in the salon, so I would have filled those up somehow. Point remains, a contest like this needs to allow for some logical grouping of individual models that compose a scene.