An Open Letter to Pissed Users

Well, a Disclaimer first:
my first printer was a RepRapWorld i3 clone in 2014 and around 2015 I was printing two color with both double extruder DIY and single extruder using the “flux capacitor” (yes, bttf citation) by Davide Dalfiume, the (IMHO) unrecognized inventor of such approach.

I then later built from scratch a corexy Hypercube and, finally, got an X1C combo this christmas after a two year forced pause due to relocation.
So I believe I can say a word or two about 3d printing.

What are you looking for?
A 3D printer for pure tinkering or a tool?
Do you ask for open source hardware or firmware for your DeWalt drill or the laundry machine?
Would that be good? for sure, I love IFixit! But it comes at a price.

Do you like something you can throw basically any print at, and …guess what, it prints? Then closed or almost closed echosystem is necessary.
You can’t provide support to a product anyone can tinker with. There are simply too many variations - just look at the back fan cover mods.

Apple teaches.
I’m looking at my 3D printer differently now. It’s the fist time (as a friend said) I have a tool. Something that is a piece of the workflow, not the purpose of the work.
I now spend more time on Fusion than on the Slicer! More on the soldering station/breadboard than on the printer.

I’ve recently built what I consider a usable tool and I admit it is a decent result. I was able to design it based on this printer capabilities (speed, bridges, quality of prints, precision): Fume extractor for soldering station by user_617910803 - MakerWorld
And honestly it was not the same with other printers. Now is like a solder or an Arduino… or a screwdriver, it does what it is supposed to do (in my case 100% of times excluding user errors).

Is the price for this recovered time a closed system? I admit I can accept.

Love to tinker? buy a super-cheap second hand ender or other or -better- build your own printer and you’ll learn a lot.
BL will piss its users if users are asking to open up the system.
I don’t like the actual BL approach much. I don’t like especially how they almost disappeared when I had a logistic problem, so cerainlty there are more than one areas for improvement.

But do think again: what are you looking for in the printer?

Then we can discuss on our rights as paying users: contract clause changes, support and spare parts availability, and things like that. But this is another topic.

Ivan P

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The objective of the requests for OSS doesn’t seem to be “We need to be able to tinker and engineer and DIY the software ourselves”. It appears to be more along the lines of “We now prefer the ability to trust a third-party to write the fw + software, since trust in you, the manufacturer, has been thrown into question, particularly with the retroactively edited announcements”. After all, this ostensibly concerns addressing security, which others even in the community seem more capable of than Bambu atm.

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I understand your point. Howerver in the end the question is: who is accountable for the product service/support/maintenance?
If the business model is “we sell printer but we make money with inks or wathever cloud service”, then you close stuff. If the model is different any reasoning is valid, I mean, there are examples of OSS companies. The problem is the second S. Here it is not only software therefore in order to guarantee some level of control on hardware performance and/or keep maintenance & support cost low, you have to get rid of openness somewhere.

I agree security motivation is BS.
I do believe they could have acted different, something like “Hey, people, this is totally unbearable for us, so we’re now going to close everything. It has been funny but it didn’t work, we’re sorry.”

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Not sure what Bambu makes money on. Depends on margin and volumes of sales I suppose. Never got the impression it was the cloud service though. Are you guys paying money for that? I had been guessing that, so far, the revenues benefit to Bambu was that more use of the more cloud service (MakerWorld?), combined with trust and reliability in the quality of print and low maintenance, resulted in more printer sales for them.

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From someone who still remembers vitamins from the reprap days i agree. Although I also agree that BBL needs to hire some cyber security and network specialists .

I think if they got proper experts in there is no reason why orca would then not work again with them and no reason why third party vendors could not work with them to produce things like the panda touch , I think Dr. Tao has admitted they basically f’d up . This is a new field for them I have full conference they will eventually hire the required people and most importantly listen to the genuine concerns of the people . There is now simply too much competition in the market for them not too.

For 90%+ of users I fully believe will not notice a difference and will not care as long as the printer works . But the top 10% of ussers , many who have more than one BBL machine are a decent sized group the very type of people who influence a lot of people Inc the so called influencers of social media. Upset them and the market will shift .
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If there was ever noise to lock the system to only bbl filament ,I would be the first to run , even though that is what I use as I fully believe it gives a much better experience. But that is certainly my line in the sand . — a nerd!

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I’m new to 3D printing and to BambuLabs/Printers. I do find the whole conversation about proposed changes interesting, especially since they came out roughly between the time I ordered my printer and it arrived. Potentially throwing all of the pre-purchase research results and some of the reasons for going with Bambu out the window. I am trying to not state good/bad idea on Bambu Labs part here. There is a lot of background I am not familar with. Some thoughts do come to mind. I live in a highly urban area yet my house is in a no-cell hole. I checked and made sure that it was stated that you could connect to the printer via local wifi before I ordered. So I got my printer and basically everything was “scan a QR code”. Doesn’t work for me. I did finally get it connected to wi-fi through the user_wifi.cfg on the micro card but it was a pain and before I achieved that my thoughts were on returning it (I did submit a ticket, still waiting for a response but it’s only been days, not weeks). Also, counter to many videos and forums out there, LAN only mode was not an available option until after I got it to display a wifi name. Before that the ONLY option was “Scan QR code”. I have done one print job so far and that was through Bambu Studio. Worked. No issues. I did also download Orca Slicer to give it a try. Saw this on the download page: “Orca Slicer is a free 3D printing slicer created by SoftFever, based on Bambu Studio.” And the install and interface on both do look very similar. Orca also needs to download the network plugin from Bambu so it can see/talk to my printer. OK. I did that and one thing that jumped out to me is that Bambu studio sees and lists Bambu PLA Wood (is this a new product?) Orca slicer does not list Bambu PLA wood but it does list multiple other Bambu PLA filament. Maybe it will pop in after an update, or maybe it is a different, older, stagnant version of the plugin. If you are still awake you may wonder where this ramble is going. Today I saw a flow chart of where Bambu wants to go for there printer conectivity process. It shows a place for Orca and other 3rd party slicers but out side of LAN only mode they will have to authenticate against Bambu/Bambu Connect (the same as Bambu Studio) through the cloud or whatever you want to call it before you can… well, print. And to be honest I am not totally sure about LAN only mode since the required plugin comes from Bambo it could also require Auth. Will this be bad or good, remains to be seen It does make me wonder about what if I am trying to print something, or am a buisness trying to fill an item order, and my connectivity to the outside world goes down. It happens where I live. It happens when ClownStrike, excuse me, CloudStrike or any other access manager fumbles an update or gets hacked. Fecal matter happens. Again, good/bad, depends on a lot of factors to the people impacted. As for the comment on dewalt… I have a lot of cordless tools from them. They have gone through 2 or 3 battery pack changes over the time I have had them. They only way to be able to continue using the older tools when the packs finally die is to either buy a convertor (some are 3rd party) that lets you use the new batteries or to buy your own loose batteries and rebuild your existing battery packs. Otherwise you can donate a 100.00 drill to your local land fill.

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Talking to myself here, would Bambu really tighten things down so much that if your cloud connectivity goes down you can’t print? Does not sound very buisness practical, so I would think probably not. You may just be handicapped on what you can use to submit/develope projects with, which might impact only people using 3rd party applications. I mean, a major online gaming platform like Ubisoft wouldn’t sell you games that download 100+ GB of content onto your PC and then not let you run it if you can’t get online… oh wait, never mind, they did. I still have faith that Bambu would not totally shoot themselves in the feet…

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I want a printer that works and doesnt lose features over time. Why do some people not understand that this is a huge issue? Especially an advanced user like you.

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You can still use the SD card to start your print if needed when there is no network access . , just pop the file on the card in .STL or similar and it should show up on your machine .

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Good to know, thanks. Would be a grind with a printer farm but you do what you need to. My internet will stay up for 2 hours during an outage but after that unless my provider pops a small gen in a box out on the street I loose internet and phones (no 911 since no cell service unless I drive up the road). I have never tested if my devices will still talk to each other through the router after that (on UPS). I can see where haveing a few pre-formated micro cards by be a good idea. Setting up one job while another is printing or such.

I guess on my wish list would just be a USB interface port so I could just direct plug into my PC, even if it limited me to using Bambu studio. Brand me a heretic.

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I think my fundamental issue is this, I bought a printer with a certain level of support and allowance for accessories and they changed the contract. They pulled a Darth Vader and changed the terms without considering the affect on users, they take steps to deliberately make any user experience that isn’t sanctioned by them worse over time.

Oh you still be able to use orca, you just have to send it through our poorly managed program. You can send prints locally, we just made sure that experience sucks and is borderline unusable., if you want to use it get a code off the printer every hour or else it won’t work peasant who doesn’t use our cloud.

I bought a printer that works, is consistent, and worked with the software I was already using. I have a brand of filament I like, I’d like to like bambu but 3 weeks leadtime is a lifetime when I’m working on a project and need something.

Now I have a printer that refuses to work with other software (orca), and has a poorly implemented lan mode that is clearly meant to punish users who choose to try and use it that way, soon things like my panda touch will no longer function. What’s next? Lock down filament? It suddenly won’t print polymaker? That cool cookiecad suddenly doesn’t work? I’m now fighting my printer as much as I had to fight my ender. That’s my issue. The printer I bought was perfectly positioned for my desire. Now it’s not. That’s the problem.

You act like people didn’t research and decide they liked what bambu offered, we did, we liked it. Now we are mad they decided to change things and are taking the things we liked away.

Think of it like this, and ender is a type one printer, it needs to be worked on and tuned endlessly, a bambu was a type 2, completely functional, but open enough to allow for experimenting, but returning to get something that just works when I want it. Type 3 is completely locked down and only works one way, their way. Bambu seems to be taking steps to make printers that were a type 2 and make them type 3. That’s where the anger comes from, not that type 3 exist, that they are moving my printer from a type 2 to type 3.

I’ve made my decisions, I took mine offline, and will only use it on lan mode. Won’t be getting another because I cant trust the company anymore, and won’t be bothering with their filament. I’ll get parts as long as they are reasonable from them. I encourage anyone looking for that type 3 printer to buy and enjoy their printer, I simply refuse to use a type 3, so I’m sticking with my current firmware and moving on to a new brand next time I get one. I recommend them to tech illiterate or uninterested friends who want a printer.

It felt like you are deliberately saying that people don’t think and are dumb for getting a bambu if they didn’t want a lockdown machine, except we didn’t get one that was locked down. Don’t downplay that, it’s the crux of everything that’s going on, so I won’t dismiss it

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Some of us don’t have our printers next to our beds in our mother’s houses.

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In general, I agree with you some printers are more tailored for user experience, others for extendability. With a small remark.

I don’t expect open-source firmware from my Dewalt drill, even tho it would be swell of them :smiley:

However, if my Dewalt drill only works with Dewalt bits it would be a problem for me.

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Not one single thing you say changes the fact that I bought my printer with certain features and they are removing them. That is bait and switch. It is unacceptable, unethical and, if they continue, quite frankly it’s probably something we customers are going to have to form a large class action lawsuit to properly address.

If I had known that Bambu was going to downgrade their printers and remove very important features when I was doing the research on what printer to purchase, it would have ruled them out immediately. As it is, instead of simply buying another X1C for my business, I’m going to be testing the new core XY printer from Prusa when it ships. I have already disallowed any future Bambu purchases, even for filament, until they revert their stupidity and greed.

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You are complaining about something that hasn’t happened and probably never will.

Bambu is not going to lock down to just their filament. That has been tried before by other companies and proven to be a road to failure. They are actively working with third parties (including Orca) to ensure that people can use their services without resorting to using a backdoor like they do today. If they were intent on going full type 3, as you put it, why would they be spending.time and resources on this effort?

Even the Biqu mentioned in their marketing for the Panda touch.that they were relying on undocumented services to communicate with the printer and that Bambu could shut that down. And thats exactly what they are doing. Closing an undocumented API that was never meant to be used in this way because it poses a potential security risk. They could have done a better job at hiw they did it, like having an alternate method already completed and rolled ou in advance and given tbise third larties more time to adapt, but I don’t fault them for wanting to close that hole.

If they do going down that road to a fully closed system then I’ll admit I was wrong and fall in line with everybody else to dump my Bambu printers, but that’s the point. There are many other alternatives out there and Bambu is fully aware that angering their community will chase them away. Let’s just hope they take this as a lesson and do better with future updates.

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I genuinely hope you are correct, and until they commit to supporting these accessories and third party slicers, I’m staying offline. Their first message was super aggressive and agro against the community,and the second was what? You just don’t listen good. They need to apologize for fucking up their communication and outline a plan. They did backpedal a bit during that verge interview but I don’t take corporations word on anything really. Until I see something actionable I’ll be skeptical

And the security thing is bollocks, it hasn’t been a serious issue yet, and they could have taken the time to get a plan to actually support third parties in place instead of dropping a bomb in the community.

If the printer wasn’t required to do an online check through bambu servers to print from a third party slicer there would be no server load for them. I’d like to be able to send from a third party locally and handy or their slicer online, but that is currently impossible. Their bad network security with the inability for third parties to directly print is the problem, and they made it the communities problem the way they chose to do things.

Like I said, they have the right to make the printers they want, and they are good printers at a competitive price, I just want my slicer of choice to work with it. I’m hopeful they will do the right thing, I just won’t bet on it until they do

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Some of us are mature enough not to resort to slinging insults when someone has an opinion different to our own :+1:

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I bought a product. I shouldn’t be forced to update the printer, I am pissed that I can’t use my camera via lan properly and I don’t want my prints to go to Bambu servers. That was not in the terms at the time of sale!! They are changing the terms of the sale by requiring me to use Bambu servers to use all the features I bought. I use there slicer and use the camera and it never used to go outside my house now my OPNsense is seeing the same traffic as if I am updating every print. That’s not what I bought and I didn’t buy a subscription model 3d printer as we know that’s the next step they will take.

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I appreciate your comments. I am brand new to 3d printing and my brand new X1 Carbon is my first 3d printer. It arrived January 9. A couple of days later I watched a YouTube video talking angrily about the ‘new firmware update’ and the massive changes it was making to the Bambu Labs printer experience.

I didn’t install that firmware. I was too absorbed in trying to learn how to use my new machine + re-learning AutoCad so I could create my own models.

My attraction to Bambu Labs was that it seemed to be a product that lived in the Type 2 world you described. One that worked reliably at a high level of quality but if repairs were needed it was sufficiently accessible to an old equipment design engineer who loves to fiddle and fix stuff. I think that is what I got. I am highly impressed with the quality of the machine and the quality of its output (even better than I had anticipated). On top of that, the tight integration with the various Bambu Labs software and apps still impresses me though the learning curve seems a little steep.

I’m not sure how I feel (or will feel) when or if the ‘xxxx’ hits the fan. I say ‘if’ only because other YouTube videos showed up within hours or days contradicting the first predictions of disaster, followed by some article from Bambu Labs directly, specifically outlining each change and trying to clarify its intended meaning / impact on ownership of Bambu Labs printers. My interpretation, at the time, was that Bambu Labs realized and then admitted it had done a very poor job of rolling out the changes and was sincere in its effort to clarify and make things right. I didn’t have then, nor do I now, have the background experience to know what the “truth” of the matter actually is.

At this point, I decided I could continue to pay attention to the impending change or I could get back to enjoying the learning process I had bought myself. I would let the change(s) materialize and wait to see whether Bambu Labs clarifications had a positive impact on the community.

My sense is, historical owners (people owning Bambu printers since before December) are not satisfied with Bambu Labs explanation, and those like me are waiting for the changes to deviate materially from our recent justification(s) to purchase our printers.

I will be pissed if over time my freedom to operate and repair my printer as I choose is limited, redirected or deleted. Now I don’t know whether to update my firmware or not… Will I be forced to update?

Thanks for the chat.

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