When learnign is out of the equation I will sell my printers.
My question relates to wanting to find a solution; I believe understanding why it is hard may point us in the right direction.
I didn’t face the same issues you did, but I slowed the printing speed down.
Yet I wasn’t printing HF filament. I usually do this as I prefer this option to increase the temperature, which may affect the filament’s mechanical properties.
The firmware may be easier to tackle but harder to test. What do you mean by regarding the hardware? Lack of heating capacity? Sensors reading? Extruder?
Maybe I can help to shed some light on the profile issues…
As we know everything is tuned for our 0.4 nozzles.
The problem we have is that Bambu did not go with flow rates as the base of calibrations and profiles but with 0.4mm print settings.
Confused? I was too
Calibrations happens both in the slicer AND in the firmware.
Many things we can affect, like flow rate as the main factor when using different nozzle sizes.
The calculations for those changes though happen in the slicer and the firmware.
During a calibration you find the flow ratio too low and adjust it.
With that you get the print result you wanted.
But then you just change to a larger or smaller nozzle and the print comes out horrible - WHY ?
The issue is that what we can calibrate and change only ever affects things for the nozzle diameter in use.
In theory it should be as easy as going with the hole area and to just multiply things with the resulting factor.
Bambu does just that by adjusting speed and acceleration values accordingly but they never (internally) calibrated the flow values properly.
As those affect many print related settings and calculations the chaos was made perfect.
In all fairness though Bambu is not alone here, other manufacturers struggle from similar issues.
But some offer far better options to address the issue.
Just for the fun of it think about this for a moment:
We have quite a few values to play with, some are entirely related to the actual printing in terms of movements and such while others are exclusively for filament related things.
Wouldn’t it make sense to have those settings combined to match this ?
Even with the mismatch Bambu (hopefully without intention) created we COULD do it like this:
Have a print profile AND have a filament/nozzle profile.
The first defines the actual print settings while the later defines everything the filament and nozzle requires.
Like that we could set filament profiles not just for various nozzle diameters but also for different hotends, like standard, hardened, high flow…
Users downloading models can then decide whether they want to use the supplied filament/nozzle profile or their own while the print quality is still defined by the print profile.
A calibration made for a 0.2mm nozzle won’t affect the printed model if we use a 0.4mm nozzle instead and it’s corresponding profile.
But right now we can change things like flow ratio, max flow rate or that independently, we can only do it as a general setting affecting all nozzle sizes.
Making a proper calibration hard, if not impossible if you need to use more than one nozzle size or hotend type on a regular base.
There is even people who bought a second or third Bambu printer so they won’t have to swap hotends
I wasn’t aware of how Bambu does it.
I can get some details from the software, but the firmware has been a black box. Can you please share the source?
I am trying to understand the difference. Currently, you have three categories (process, filament and machine). Since a machine has a nozzle diameter and filaments are associated explicitly with machines and their nozzle size, I cannot find a difference in your suggestion. Maybe there are. Can you clarify?
My filaments and their calibration settings relate to a printer with a specific nozzle diameter. So when I change the nozzle diameter from 0.4mm to 0.6mm, the filaments aren’t the same. They could be if I create the same list for both nozzles, but their presets would be unique and associated with the printer (aka nozzle size).
Edit: This approach seems good, allowing users to define settings at different levels. You can impose printing speeds at the printer (nozzle) level, or if you need this reduction for specific cases, you can do it in the printing settings, or if it is just particular to the filament, you can also edit the filament present. Since their dependencies are well-defined, there will be no conflict.
Hy together,
today I start print parts on X1C in Elegoo PETG rapid beige, 15 kg must be printed now. 300g each part starting with 0.8 nozzle. Not possible to close gaps between extruded lines in big top surfaces within 1 days trials, will try it later. Need 50 parts in 2 weeks, so time burns. Changed to 0.6 nozzle works now after 4h developing settings with orca slicer test cube (very helpfull screw with thread included for testing). I worked not with Orcaslicer (Release 2.1.0), to much software errors (f.e. surface line pattern first layer in slicer has different direction as later in printed part), I worked with bambu studio. No change in printer-extruder-settings, only changes in filament profile (basis bambu PETG HF) and of course velocity, Quality, strength etc the usual things (nozzle 255°C, bed 90°C, all 100mm/s except overhang 50mm/s, smooth pei bed; line width top surface 0,62==>0,7mm)
My special findings was increase retraction length and speed (1,4 ==> 2,3mm and 30==>50mm/s both retraction and feed). Min. Velocity increase up 20 ==> 40mm/s, otherwise the thread of the screw was to big in diameter for assembling in cube: comparison with PLA cube (0,4mm nozzle) done, assembly visa versa). Only concentric patterns on surfaces to avoid stopps of the nozzle, triangles in filling (same reason) and all 3 Blowers 100% from start. Flow ratio 0,98; max flow 30mm^3/s;
It´s not the optimum at least for quality, but not far away and for my parts sufficient and fast to print. At least I had no time to investigate longer.
For all of you a good starting point I think when fighting with bigger parts.
Happy printing
I tried the 0.6mm nozzle, and the resulting quality did not convince me much. Tuning every filament Is necessary. I didn’t completely get rid of all the artifacts, I just managed to reduce them a lot. The only benefit remains the higher strength and better cohesion of the layers, than printing with a 0.4 mm nozzle. The printing time is usually the same as when printing with a 0.4 mm nozzle. Print speed of 100mm/s and acceleration of 2000mm/s2 is the maximum usable in my case. Another plus is actually less noise when printing (as a result of the low speed). With Průša MK3 and MK4, printing with a 0.6 mm nozzle is problem-free without extra tuning (tested on nearby printers).
unfortunately this is true with most of the big printer manufacturers. They offer a bunch of nozzle options, but only tune the stock one well… Same thing with my prusa. Luckily tuning isn’t too hard once you have a bit of experience
That is completely untrue, 1.75mm filament is industry standard and suitable for all nozzles (of course, that are smaller than 1.75mm lol). What’s lacking here is printer tuning.
you can believe what you want. Most filament manfactorers develop for 0,4mm nozzle and don´t care about other diameters. That´s why nearly no print profile for 0,6 or what else diameter is available from them. What industry you are talking? lol
The use of FDM printers in mechanical engineering industry is almost imperceptibly small. Reason is machine availability. Industry standard is almost 99,99%
I am new to BL Printers and I do not have enough experience with BL that I can neither agree or disagree anyone. I am just trying to understand.
One thing, which mentioned by a few of you, does not make sense to me. Heater can not produce enough heat to melt the filament and AMS can not keep up with the speeds required for flow rates of 0.6. Fair for an old Ender but these printers are claiming to reach very high speeds and temperatures enough to melt and print engineering filaments. The default generic speeds for PLA and PETG are very conservative compared to their claims. How come it can not keep up with 50% larger diameter nozzle.
I was hot swapping nozzles with my Ender3 S1 Pro with sonic pad I never had any problems related to nozzle size. Maybe the secret sauce was the ability to calibrate everything by yourself, idk.
I was considering to order 0.2 and 0.6 for my new P1S but now on the second though…
It looks to me like the limiting factor regarding max speed/flow is really the heating chamber. That seems to be identical for all Bambu nozzles which is why .6 and .8 do not translate to higher speeds.
High flow nozzles have a larger internal surface area in the heating chamber. At least for the ObXidian, the next limiting factor upwards is the power output of the heater, or more precisely the boards power capability which prevents safely installing high power heaters in the hot end.
Getting the .2 and .6 nozzles can still be a good idea. .2 for fine detail, .6 for prints with transparency or reinforced material.
It sounds like a very poor design decision the. Just like putting the worn-out tires of a street car on to a race car.
Yes that is point of having multiple nozzles. We do not have access to those nozzles here and along with inflated cost I might need to sell my blood and soul to intermediates (aka locals dealers) to pre order them. If I can not be able to calibrate and use them effectively due to “closed printer/software” limitations I can postpone it until BL decide to correct them.
I agree, the heat chamber does seem to be optimized for the .4. So it is also good for the .2 but underperforms for the .6.
The ObXidians are quite pricey but when I ran mine for a large PLA print I could just up the max flow rate and had great results without any tinkering. That is, until the sensor failed to detect a poop chute clog which killed the nozzle. Fortunately, that was close to the end of the project. Just bad luck.
I am aware of the math. What I try to point out is BL claims their printers are capable of printing with all of their product range at high speed. As far as I understand, many people report poor results even with lower speeds.
As I mentioned in my prior post, many older and cheaper printer can make successful prints with all available nozzle dimensions. This feels like a very poor fore sighting of BL.
There is no way I can buy the The ObXidians. After sifting through the local dealers I found that there are a few V2 hotend upgrade kits with CHT nozzles available. Do you think they do the trick and worth?
I ordered my ObXidians directly from e3d through their website. But of course, I do not know if they can deliver to your region.
I have seen mixed reports in the forum on the CHT nozzles. Some are reported as working well while others seem to cause more trouble than they are worth.
