I am struggling right now, as I have a model on PC that I downloaded a while ago. Since the original is taken offline, I am wondering if I am allowed to create a remix (even if I cannot point to the OC anymore)…
So having the license information at time of download inside the project tab of the 3mf file would be really helpful.
Br
Edit: Just to make it more clear from the start (read answers for details):
No Chain-of-Trust (Digital Signage, DRM)
Only as a information (e.g. pictogram) within the project tab of the 3mf project (No embedded License)
Would also decrease possible licensing problems if the original license is changed after download, (Not being a lawyer) Licenses can’t easily be revoked
No need to search/find the original model anymore
Decreases risk of “community improved” model getting sold later (Paywall, in a distant sense DRM)
As soon a licence is stored in the 3MF metadata, that opens the door to the slicer or CAD software reading that data and limiting what you can do with the file.
We don’t need DRM ruining this hobby like it has so many others.
I get it would be “nice to have” in this case, but you have an edge case here. In the big picture this doesn’t end anywhere good.
I think there used to be a “notes” or “project” tab or field that got attached to the 3mf and available again when you opened it, is it gone now? That would really need to be the place as there are a lot of possible licenses and you really need the full text to be enforceable.
What you are asking is “if I don’t know the original license or protection status of a potentially protected work, am I allowed to proceed as if it were unprotected?”
From like a “correctness” standpoint, no, end of story.
A small blurb in the description about the situation, asking to find the original owner, etc, might make it explainable and “good-faith”, and your assigned license should be fairly restrictive to prevent further unattributed cascade of remixing. Idk, still not kosher.
Even if this were possible, a 3MF file can be edited easily, and any DRM could likely be stripped. As far as I know, 3MF just isn’t designed to be a DRM-capable format. If DRM were to be introduced, it probably wouldn’t be called 3MF anymore. It’s similar to how you cannot natively protect an MP3 or JPEG with DRM, you would need specific container formats or ecosystems for that (like WMA or WMV).
@krellboy That’s exactly what I was trying to say: Just include a note inside the project section of the 3MF file to display the license pictograms. This could probably be done using HTML or Markdown, depending on what the format uses internally.
Regarding License Changes and Remixing
As for the model I currently have on my drive: I can obviously still print it for private use, but depending on the license terms, distributing it might be off the table, even if someone asks me.
However, regarding retroactive license changes, it is actually pretty clear: The license change does not affect the local copy I already downloaded. Since I acquired the file under the original license terms, those are the exact terms that apply to my copy. If the original license allowed modifications at the time of download, I am still perfectly fine to create and share my remix, regardless of what the creator changed the license to later on.
Asking is never out of option ofc. Doing that sometimes… two times now.
I was ignored in the process, as the designer was “overwhelmed” by the publicity (I think)
The designer changed from standard file license to CC-mention only (i think)
But in this case, I will most likely not be able to receive the OK, as the designer is selling it now. Not that I want to make my own profit here, but this model raised the question what license was attached to the model I downloaded.
See the Reddit thread about OSS licensing. Revoking a license given to the user is not as easy as it looks like. How should I know I am not allowed to, if the model I downloaded stated CC-dl-and-forget?
This would also reduce the possibility of using the community to improve a model and then paywall it. Like in this case
I am not a lawyer but think in these cases the assumption is standard copyright protections apply unless stated otherwise. If there is a license included that says otherwise then off you go. But without explicit license terms, it’s the creator’s to decide.
I’m only thinking of what could be proven in court. If you don’t have a copy of the original license to prove your rights as granted at the time you downloaded it, then the creator would win in a lawsuit.
But it’s the designer’s prerogative to answer your questions or not and not answering doesn’t grant you any rights.
And the comment about using a community to improve a model might not apply. If someone creates a model, lets others modify it, and then thinks they can paywall it after, they are essentially stealing the improvements others make and infringing their rights.
But again, not a lawyer. If it’s important to you, you should talk to a real lawyer versed in copyright law. No answer anyone gives you here would ever stand up in court.
I just made two examples where I asked the designer. I even received “full rights” … But this is nothing worth on MakerWorld. I was ignored asking if he could change the license to something allowing me uploading my remixes. Now I just haven’t done it. No harm, not blaming him.
For the model which made me ask: I am not sharing it, as I am not aware I am allowed. And since the designer is selling it now, I don’t even try to ask for either sharing the file, or remixing it. The public file is dead, it can only be purchased fully printed. For me, I am in luck, I still have the file. (@CarbonForge seeing the paywall/DRM here? )
About lawsuit/lawyer:
Yeah … and here I think the included pictogram of the license would make sense
Having the original file, with the proper change-date, may be a viable “proof”.
Here something like a change history of the model page would also make sense … But one step after another …
Only the file date … could also be faked in a way or another, since the files are not signed at all. (another reason against 3mf incorporating DRM).
But this is a discussion (DRM, Licensing Laws, Signing, …Chain-of-Trust ) I didn’t want to start.
For the ease of having the file on my PC: I just would love to see what license it was on download.
I bet, even if I was allowed to create remixes, MW would still side with the designer (in my guess at least, before using some kind of Arbitration board, or similar)
Yep. It’s what is provable in court. And also true about file modifications and such. Outcome would also depend on what the other guy could prove and even if he would try sue. Having already released it muddies things and especially if he incorporated others’ changes/additions where his ownership wouldn’t be pure and he could even be infringing on others. It would likely make lawyers salivate.
I’m on the side of doing what is right. If the original license that you downloaded under allowed whatever you are wanting to do then you may have a case. But if it’s outside of the license you don’t. If you don’t remember the details or the exact license, maybe the “wayback machine” can help and even establish the file authenticity?
I checked a 3MF file I had dloaded from MW and it seems to have the license information filled out. In the 3MF archive check the content of “/3D/3dmodel.model” file (it’s plain-text XML). I don’t know how that data got populated… I’m guessing some MW “magic” (eg. this one says “Standard Digital License” which is a MW thing).
Anyway, I don’t see anything wrong with being able to specify those properties as distinct project data points. More structure means it’s easier to get that information programmatically if needed, for example. The current workaround would be to add those fields into the 3MF file’s metadata manually (and hopefully Studio will keep those fields intact when saving, but I haven’t tried that). I have no idea how that would play with the data that MW seems to be adding, but OTOH I guess it could just as well overwrite whatever is already there.
Tried Wayback machine, but no one bothered to archive the page. There is no automation. IF you really want to … sure, possible.
@MaxThreeD Damn … I haven’t even thought about checking if there is a license already inside the archive. Yeah, the license is definitely applied to the 3dmodel.model. Cross checked with one of my designs with different license.
So it would only be a matter of showing it inside the project tab. I will check the githubs.
About 3mf-DRM: … I even mentioned “container-formats” of course this is also a container-format… I really haven’t checked deeply into the 3mf format before writing. I only was thinking about the fact, I can open it in 7zip …
I was going to mention the same thing, it’s already in the .3mf files, just not easy to find without knowing.
It’s added as a Standard license when exporting from Bambu Studio by default. When downloaded from Makerworld, it embeds the license that the file is listed with at the time of download.
It’s already possible to store such info in print files, and some people do it.
Now a 3MF is basically a zip file (unzip one, you will see, you might to change the extension to one your zip program recognises) with lots of stuff in there, and it’s easy to throw some extra files in. In fact you will see lots of extra files in there, including .XML which are structured text files (open one in notepad) and quite easy to add license info.
Where I have already seen licensing is in STL files, which support comments, which allows the insertion of artbitrary text into the file. This allows the vendor to put, for example, “downloaded by (email address) at (time)” into the STL download they deliver to you. Typically you will see this in purchased niche use files downloaded from a vendor’s own store, instead of some big 3d print site such as makerworld. It is intended that it enables them to catch pirates, but it never really works.
Now the quesiton is not “if these things can be put in” but “will software be written to read them”?
of course this is also a container-format… I really haven’t checked deeply into the 3mf format before writing. I only was thinking about the fact, I can open it in 7zip …
