Few questions about X1C from researching for first 3D printer

[Polycat]

I am doing research on my first 3d printer and came across the Bambu X1 Carbon, which looked to be a well made and easy to use printer.

I have started to dig in on a variety of forums on folks ( hopefully ) honest opinions and reviews about the machine which added more confusion as there’s more “horror” stories either with printing, rust, or inability to get support.

I then came across another unit, a Qidi Max3 while searching and I saw that it has an internal heater and larger bed size 12x12 and a way to keep the filament dry vs 10x10 on the X1C, but no AMS for color swaps. ( not sure why you would need to keep plastic dry, is there any particular difference with these filaments that attracts moisture that it needs to be dried? )

I then researched more and found that there is an aftermarket closure heater to keep the inside temps around 55-60° C or so to prevent warping, so I could possibly add that and have all my bases covered for successful prints? Though I am unsure if the heater would cause issues by adding it since BU did not include it?

I’ve also come across some posts over on the BU forums saying that the AMS unit has feed issues and it’s a pain to fix and that it happens often. I understand there could be issues with any new tech but I’d be curious to know if the AMS is really all it’s stated to be or if it’s still a problem?

With all the above said, it’s of course obvious that one will not know until one gets something to form a baseline. This is how I approached my first CNC laser engraver, and found out the pros and cons myself.

With the 3d printer I’d like to do it right and do it once rather than go after machine after machine, though it seems that this changes with new advancements in the tech more than a CNC laser cutter/engraver.

My aim with this is to spend more time designing rather than fiddling with the printer which is part of the allure of the X1C, I only got confused with the lack of heater and smaller bed size ( not that I want to print a helmet or skull but having that capability is nice )

Could anyone weigh in on the lack of internal heater, pros/cons on the X1C or any of the above?

I’d like to make some headway on which path to take.

Many thanks!

[MZip]

Yep, for whatever reason filament needs to be kept dry or else it can absorb water out of the air and become brittle and break in an AMS or print head, or have issues during printing leading to surface defects, poor bed adhesion, etc.

And the AMS does have a way to keep filament dry though maybe not dry it - there’s a couple of pockets specifically for desiccant and there’s models here that let you load up more desiccant. The X1-C is enclosed and can be used to heat and dry filament rolls using the bed heater. It’s why some Bambu filament spools are high temperature plastic and marked with allowable high temperature.

I’ve had great luck with my AMS. The jams I’ve had have been because of brittle filament from the factory and not a fault of the AMS but that’s just my experience over 6+ months.

It depends what you want to do. I’ve had great luck with my X1-C. I have had to fix broken filaments but those were with problematic filament that others have also noted for brittleness and printing issues brand new out of the bag.

I’ve had failed prints too but most are on me and my lack of experience. These days I’ve had much better luck. And part is just the nature of the beast. Clogs, broken filament, and bad prints are an occasional fact of life no matter which printer you decide to get.

[binfordw]

I bought an X1C recently-

What filaments are you planning to use most?

I don’t see a reason for a chamber heater really. The X1C has a chamber temp readout, you can preheat using the bed/fan to raise it if its needed.

Dry filament is important, but its easy enough to manage that. the AMS unit is enclosed, and has humidity readings to monitor. I use small cheap “Sunlu” brand driers when I’m feeding single spools instead of using the AMS. Keeps filament clean and humidity low.

[DWdesigns]

Just curious, if this is your first 3D printer, how would you know you need internal heater?

There is an X1E that has the internal heater, plus other features. But it’s at a much higher price point.

[Polycat]

I’m looking at PLA, ABS and possibly carbon fiber once I get for making some reinforced hooks for molle straps.

I’m in the process of researching the various types of fillaments and what’s best to use for what you make.

[Polycat]

I was reading a few articles about internal heaters and how they aid in preventing warping and that the bed heater on the X1C isn’t enough to keep temps up ( I saw this on some other threads in my research ) and that you need to tape up or seal the X1C unit, or get a internal heater.

[Polycat]

I did not see the X1E till you mentioned it.

Yeah around 2500 vs the sale price of the X1C, less the fancy ethernet / wifi protocols, internal filtration and internal heater, not sure it’s worth that much for for me personally.

Too bad they did not just add the heater for the X1C or sell an additional upgrade.

[johnfcooley]

Not an x1, but a p1s, print ABS daily with no heater. Close the top glass, keep the door closed, maybe install an Bento Box, and good to go. Printed ABS, ABS-GF, PA6-GF, and all the other (PLA etc).

I get regularly to 58 internally and haven’t had warping except with one print on ASA. Have printed large flat objects as well as taller objects. Have run them through the AMS, but I have a Sunlu S4 that keeps my filament dry.

I had considered adding a heater. I feel less need and may consider it down the line if something happens to change.

Can’t speak on the Qidi. I’ve seen some nice reviews though.

[MZip]

One thing about heating the X1-C chamber is the bushings for the carbon rods. There is a thread here about how there was a design change that didn’t like lots of heat. If you want lots of heat it might be a good read.

[Polycat]

Thanks for the breakdown. I’d say up front that I have zero expectations of being able to have 100% print success each and every time especially given some of the build times I’ve seen for various things printed. Then again with my CNC laser it’s mostly set and forget but that’s only cause I’ve tested with a variety of material, have a journal of what speeds and power settings to use for each material type and thickness so as to get a good outcome. Do things go south for me still, occasionally, but it’s usually operator error ( wrong power on a layer being etched when I wanted to cut ) etc etc. That may be different with a 3D printer however since bed adhesion can be a problem, or clogs occasionally that would ruin a job I’d imagine.

I’d also think that after a few test prints and learning the software ( something else entirely ) that I’d begin to get a baseline for what the machine is capable of.

I’m hoping that I’m not overselling this unit to myself that it’s actually as easy and straightforward as I’ve been seeing other folks mention, having great success with prints with very little hassle.

As for what I want to actually print with the X1C:

I am leaning towards useful and functional things such as a vertical stand for a laptop, wall hooks, socket and wrench organizers, pipe reducers for HVAC fans, molle clips, d rings ( for keys, not anything that relies on high tensile strength )

And for fun, I know a family member who would love a Mandalorian mask, or Witcher knuckes, or other kitchy game toy, perhaps a multi colored 1UP mushroom from Mario Bros, things like that.

I also have a few models I have made with Blender that would be neat to have printed out instead of looking at them on a flat screen.

I’m hoping things like that are possible ( within the limits of the 10" x 10" tray)

[Polycat]

I only saw the heated chamber mentioned on the Qidi unit I came across, before I started to read up on ABS and warping but as @johnfcooley said above, he’s printed ABS with no heater and been G2G, so perhaps I was a bit impulsive thinking I instantly need an internal heater.

Though the X1E may have different bushings to handle the extra heat and that’s why it has the internal heater

[JonRaymond]

@Polycat

he’s printed ABS with no heater and been G2G

Yup, lots of us print ABS on the regular without issue. It’s as simple as letting the chamber warm up via the bed and keeping the bed clean.

[Barryg41]

Same hear on printing 95% ABS on the BL printer. I also have a Qidi XMax3. And it also prints 75% ABS /ASA The rest is PC or TPU. It does a good job for me. I had to learn the Klipper eco system as i have never owned a printer that used Klipper type OS. You have a lot of manual stuff to set right to have good prints. Its not like the BL X1C.

Would i buy the Qidi again? Yes for only the size and heated chamber.

[vladimir.minkov]

X1C you can add a 5mm insulation exteranly what i did or they sell some nice leather which probably will be enough, and after some tunning then is very easy the ABS

100% no 3d printer will print , especially with some materials

I am ok with X1C but had to replace under warranty the base as was curved enough(around 0.5mm) to have issues in big models
I also have Prusa Mk4IS at the moment which apart from the AMS i am getting better results overall with some speed sacrifice and the plate did not fit one model
Have a friend who claims for the price QIDI is better than X1C

If i had a good AMS for the Mk4 instantly getting rid of X1C

Before that had MK3S modified and that was also better results than X1C , but due to first level Z offset was not automatic was annoying and was slower

Not recommending any specific printer but from my experience here are the things to look or not look :

• Auto Z Level - MK4 / X1C i think some QIDI but check
• Head temperature - >=300C but 350C or higher is better
• Flatness of the bed with temp compensation - MK4 , X1C( not ideal ) with temp X1C increases the curve if it has one
• Nozzle type - high flow and hardened steel or obxidian - all - some need to be ordered separately the hardened nozzle
• Multi Head/Nozzle - both X1C and MK4 do not have it , but i would love to have it mainly for multilateral us but also good for multicolor
• DO NOT NEED Auto flow calibrations( X1C) - doe not work properly or even if starts working does it is a waste of money,
• Chamber - preferably heated for ABS/ASA you can get away with out heated but is nice to have . Note that if the chamber starts to go above 70C-75 the X1C starts having issues and probably most entry printers, as the stepper motors start skipping and electronics issues. ( X1C is ok with some mods) Mk4 enclosure depending what you get, Qidi looks the best out of the box but never tried it
• AMS - the best AMS is on X1C especially for storing materials dry, have not tried the MK4 version but does not look as good.
• Easy nozzle swap for sizes - since my Mk3s e3d Revo have not see anything like that both X1C and MK4 nozzle swap is not ideal , but MK4 is easier not sure for Qidi .
• Bed temperature >=110C - all, but i really need 120C-130C sometimes
• Auto leveling - all have it, but MK4 has optimized only where the Model sits which is nicer not sure for Qidi
• Input Shaping - for me that is optional gains extra speed but very often you can have artifacts and need to deal with that both X1C and MK4IS
• Stepper Motor quality - MK4 has better on X/Y with 0.9d step angle while most other use 1.8 , but also rated current /Torque important to compare higher is better . Especially in hot environment more important than the Step angle
• Print Accuracy and Physical accuracy - if a manufacture claims Print accuracy of 0.1mm usually is achievable better on MK4 i get to around 0.05 on X1C was 0.1 but lately got close to 0.05mm . But important to see the positional accuracy of the system if not mistaken X/Y was about 0.012 on X1C , Z accuracy less important
• Extruder gear for the filament - all are good these days MK4 has better but X1C is good not sure for Qidi
• Strong and straight frame and leads - all have ok ish frame , but there are better mor commercial ones . MK4 and X1C are close , but long term MK4 wins here. Voron or some special MKx frames are better but too much mods
• Filament run out sensor - MK4 and X1C have it but may be not all qidi models

Depending on the budget
For me the best printers with no budget limits are

• Ultimaker S5/S7 Pro bundle - expensive
• Prusa XL with 5 tool heads and enclosure - a bit more reasonable in price

If today have to buy a printer from scratch and considering my budget and needs
Ordered , based on the priority , but may be if i put the prices and again plus/minus beside will reorder it a bit

• QIDI X-CF - best frame highest quality with heated chamber
• QIDI X-Max3/X-Plus 3 - compromise price and increased size
• MK4 XL - with 1 or 2 toolheads and chamber - maybe 1 tool head and then upgrade
• MK4 with chamber and potentially with AMS
• P1S with spare Hardened nozzles - does everything , the way i have been using X1C - with AMS
• X1C with AMS- a bit better but not

[Ambrosia]

edit: I forgot the Prusa XL which someone else mentioned. Great printer. Competition, but for a lot more money. The ultimaker is absolutely not worth the price.

A little data point from someone who has access to various Bambu printers including an X1C and an X1E. The X1C is an outstanding printer and completely wrecks literally every other offering from every other manufacturer. Yes, that includes extremely high end printers from people like Ulitmaker and Raise 3D. If you just want to print stuff, in most normal filaments, and even some special ones, X1C ticks a lot of boxes.

When we tested an X1C next to a Raise 3D pro 3 at Cambridge Makespace it was simply embarassing to watch the Raise machine slowly fail to print parts that the X1C could churn out four times as fast without breaking a sweat.

AMS is a game changer and mixing multiple filaments in one plate is something that will make your life better. Nobody else has a product like this yet, certainly not at the level of reliability and usability that Bambu has delivered. There is waste, but it’s worth it to avoid the calibration issues that you get with a multi-extruder setup. Yes there are some filaments that don’t print nicely from the AMS. Once you find out what those are, just don’t put them in the AMS. We just have a blanket ban on TPU and anything with “filler” such as glass fiber going in the AMS. You can still print those filaments, you just print them from a spool hanging on the side of the printer like peasants that don’t have an AMS

While the X1E is unquestionably better for some engineering filaments, the X1C and print most of those filaments flawlessly too. We printed Bambu Labs polycarbonate on our X1C on the first day with no preparation and it worked out of the box. Unless you know you are going to print a lot of ASA, or PA12 nylon, you probably don’t need an X1E. ABS prints flawlessly on the X1C.

We have an X1E and aren’t planning on getting another one. For the vast majority of people, it’s just another X1 that they use exactly like they use other X1Cs.

You will save money buying almost any other “hobbyist” grade printer. You will also have a worse user experience, pretty much guaranteed. By which I mean: you’ll be fixing broken stuff, wondering why things don’t work, printing slower, and having more failed prints. It’s not perfect, we’re not at the Xerox photocopier just yet, but it still doesn’t have any serious competition after being on sale for well over a year.

p.s. regarding keeping filament dry, you can dry filament before you print, in a normal oven, and it will be fine. This mainly applies to PETG and nylon filaments.

[DWdesigns]

It’s good that you read about before making a decision. You may have put too much weight on having an active chamber heater though. Based on your use case, one would think an X1C + AMS combo makes for a very good first 3D printer. Even if the next generation X2 comes out, the X1C will still be a solid machine to have and keep.

[MZip]

Your use case isn’t too different from mine. I used to have a Makerbot Mini+ and the build volume is 5”x5”x4”. The 10x10x10” of the X1-C is like a mansion… sort of. Those extra 2” in all axes would be handy occasionally, though.

If the other printers you’re looking at don’t have color capability, that’s now mostly all I print. It’s too cool to whip out Minnie Mouse wheel hub covers for relatives, lightboxes, clocks, hobby boxes, lithophanes, etc with color. Color turns regular 3D prints into doodads that people don’t believe you made. The only AMS issues I’ve had so far have been filament breaks because of bad filament. I’ve got two because that opened up multicolor with up to 8 colors without manual filament changes.

My experience with the X1-C has really been great. Any minor issues have been my own doing and part of the learning curve with these printers. Worst I’ve had in all this are occasional ruined prints until I learned more about what causes lifting off the build surface and how to prevent, less than perfect overhangs, etc. I’ve reprinted more things just getting dimensions right or improving a model after I can hold and see it than I’ve had to do because the model was perfect and the printer ruined it.

Not in any way trying to steer you to the X1C. I don’t know anything about the other printers you are looking at. And I have seen some have what appear to be real issues with the X1C. I have come to love printing in color though.

It just blows me away that I can do stuff like this. This is a clock face i did for a friend of mine that misses his MoPar… Bambu X1-C and 2x AMS.

[Polycat]

Gotcha, that sounds like me having to learn lightburn and setup communication between one of the CNC lasers I have and the host computer.

I’m set on being able to do multiple colors now so I think that somewhat clinches the decision off the bat now, since the other model I was looking at, the Qidi Max3 doesn’t offer any sort of AMS type add on ( least from what I could see ). Their site is down right now it looks like.

[Polycat]

That right there is something I’d love to be able to make ( and I saw the CYMK fillaments now too ) which would be really cool for printing photos in plastic.

I think the AMS somewhat narrows my decision now since nobody else offers anything like the AMS for color changes in a ( assuming easy to use ) setup.

The letter crispness on that clock is also ( to me ) really good! Thanks for sharing that!

The one question I’d have for that is I see 5 colors and the AMS only has 4, so was this something like laying down all black for the back, then going back over and building up the other colors after and switching out a filament in the AMS?

[Alex_vG]

You can connect up to 4 AMS to one printer which allows for up to 16 colours at once.

I’m also very happy with my X1C. Just one warning regarding multicolor prints: It can become really wasteful and time consuming, because each time the printer changes from one colour to another, it has to purge the nozzle from the old filament. Look up X1C poop on YouTube for a good lough. For smaller models with more than say 3 colors, the numbers go completely crazy like you produce 5-10 times the waste compared to the actual model. That is kind of a worst case of course. Models where colour changes are only in a few layers or at larger models, the relation becomes much better but it still hurts.
If you want fully unlimited regular multicolor printing, I would recommend the Prusa XL instead. A friend of mine has one and is very happy.
But for technical materials, the X1C is even better because of the closed housing.

Anyway, the X1C is an exceptional printer and the AMS is still a game changer. Even if it causes lots of poop, you still con print multicolor at all and even multimaterial. And it is unbelievably convenient to have the most used filaments at hand with just a drop down. That alone is reason enough for me to add a second AMS soon.