I’ve recently received and tested my new plate from Lightyear, the G10 pro.
After using it, I got an ugly and partially under extruded first layer. I didn’t think it was a faulty plate, so I did the whole routine. Cleaned the entire printer, all the rods, for the sake of it lubricated the lead screws again. I even redid the belt tension and calibration. My flow rate and PA are dialed in perfectly. Nothing I tried changed a thing. I even verified the tension on the extruder gears.
I scrubbed the G10 plate with soap and a soft sponge some 5 or 6 times, rinsed it off thoroughly with hot water, it helped somewhat but the edges, left and right, continue to under extrude. So, eventually, I decided to print it on the included textured PEI bambu plate and it came out perfect. Not a single flaw.
My question is, could this really be a bad plate from G10 and I need to return it? Which I know will be painful because I cannot get them to respond to me. Or, is it possible the textured plate is compensating for flaws elsewhere and they won’t show up?
Ideally I’d have another flat plate to test on, but I don’t have that. This is my first new plate and I’m really disappointed. This has been a massive setback for my projects.
I’d really appreciate any insight on this!
Also, as you can see in the pictures. The G10 plate has these weird artifacts on it, blobs of what seem like squished together lines, with dots along the line, as if it extruded more or perhaps the extrusion got more squished to the side due to height difference? You can see it clearly on some photos if you zoom in. None of this shows up on the PEI textured plate. It left me confused and really worried it might be a printer issue, but now I just don’t know anymore. Can this really all be due to a faulty plate?
The creases in the sheets are my fault. I pulled them off too soon in my hurry.
If the plate has flaws, ridges/whatever, then try sending it back, if you can get a response from them. If no response, and you paid with credit card, do a chargeback. If you bought it just to try it out, I bought a g10 for my old ender 3, from comgrove. It didn’t work. They said I needed a sticker for it. I got a refund. For my p1s, I bought some extra cheap pei sheets from ali express, and they work fine.
The g10 is more thermally insulting compared to steel/pei, so maybe the bed temp. needs raising a tad.
I did try the recommended 60C temperature with each attempt. Ill try raising it a bit more and see if that fixes it but I have strong doubts. I just measured it with calipers and along the edges there are differences in thickness, from 1.70mm to 1.80mm so it varies. If I measure farther to the center it starts to go up to 1.90mm. So there are indeed differences.
It seems like you went through an awful lot of work but did you do bed leveling? Also, what kind of filament material did you run your first layer tests with.
Question:
Can you post a picture of the cleaned bed at an angle so that we can see the glare off of it? Also, one that’s straight on so that we can see the surface.
One word of advice: before you break out the mechanic’s toolbox and start applying screwdrivers and wrenches to resolve any issue, you may want to visit here first and seek help to avoid the risk of introducing a new problem through a mis-torqued screw or other anomaly. These are not your grandfather’s Ender 3s and really shouldn’t require mechanical tuning. The factory calibration is usually as good as it can get. Albeit, we have seen one or two examples of that here. Note, one or two; it is a rare occurrence indeed.
Mechanical issues typically show up across nozzle movement; yours are localized. You are right to suspect the plate, so going after mechanical resolutions in the drive system should be a last resort.
On the subject of the first layer, I see that you are getting some artifacts that despite having cleaned it, still points to some kind of contamination on the plate.
Here’s what I might suggest as a troubleshooting steps to rule out or rule in plate contamination:
If you haven’t already done so, try using different filament types to ensure that it’s happening on the same areas of the build plate. If you have PC or PETG on hand, those are far stickier than PLA and should give some insight into whether or not this is plate contamination. (CAUTION: Test any new filament on a a small corner of the plate first to ensure that it doesn’t react negatively)
Try changing the orientation of the filament flow to some strangely odd direction from the default 45° to something really different like 353°. The goal is to get the lines to change directions. Also, make sure you have top layer, bottom layers and walls turned to zero.
When you run the test, do not take it off the plate until it is completely cooled down. Instead, put the plate in the freezer for 5 to 10 minutes. This will set up a hard and brittle 1st layer that should come off the bed without wrinkles.
Have you tried printing multiple layers and does the problem change or go away with more layers? Unless you need an absolute perfect first layer, if the rest of your print is successful, you may not care.
Using Filament as a cleaning agent
Let’s assume that you discover it to be a contaminant that simply won’t clean off without the use of a specific solvent. PTFE based lubricants are a good example. You might try printing the stickiest of filaments you have over that one section multiple times and seeing if the contaminant migrates to the filament surface. I had this happen to my G10 plate and for the life of my, I still cannot figure out what the contaminant was although I suspect it was some PTFE lubricant I use on the printer.
Question:
During your cleaning, did you try glass cleaner? The ammonia in the cleaner is not really good for anything that may contain plastics but one use shouldn’t harm the plate and ammonia is a great solvent for a myriad of items. Test the corners first to be sure.
Question:
Is this a dual sided plate? Does the other side also have artifacts?
Thank you for taking the time to make such a thorough response. I haven’t had time to test your suggestions, but as soon as I am able I’ll come back with the results.
I’ll answer the questions I can for now:
I used Sunlu PLA+ for my print. I would use PETG, but my only spool won’t fit inside the AMS, which is an issue I’m working to correct. At this point the filament will need to be dried properly before I can run tests with it.
You want a photo of the heatbed itself, correct? I did do some testing for a warped bed, there is a tiny bit of light leakage under a straight metal ruler when I tested it across the surface, but it’s surprisingly minimal. It seemed more something caused by texture imperfections on sheet than warping. But I’ll take one and post it in my next reply along with the rest so you can have a look.
I did try multiple layers as I caught this issue while printing a large piece. I spotted the first layer defects still present. I bought the plate specifically for a smooth perfect finish. Being so reflective, it’s easy to spot the defects I’m seeing. The piece I’m printing takes up most of the print bed surface.
I have not tried glass cleaner. I will try it when I do the other tests you suggested.
It is a dual sided plate and the photos I included are of both sides. Each side has 3 photos. And yes, both sides have artifacts. It’s hard to see on one of the photos, but both sides have an artifact roughly same size and shape in the same location. The other one shifted location. On that topic, I did notice a pattern of under extrusion that persists locally when flipping it over. Flipping it puts the left side of the plate to the right and vice versa. When I do this, you can see the under extrusion pattern on the edge is almost identical, but now on the other side. I’ve taken some photos, it’s really hard to capture it properly, but when I hold it up to the light, it’s almost a perfect match. Which leads me to believe, along with my caliper measurements, that it’s a manufacturing defect in the plate thickness.
I’ve scrubbed this thing so thoroughly. My first print I only cleaned it with alcohol, it went straight from the package into the printer with no contamination on my part. Once i spotted the issues I cleaned and cleaned, scrubbing with a soft sponge and soap and hot water, again and again and tested but it just didn’t get better.
Here are some photos. So these are the two sheets printed on opposite sides of the plate. I overlaid them to match the plate’s sides.
Thanks for taking the additional time for a thorough response. I wish more folks would do such a thorough job so we can better help.
I think it’s safe to say that pursuing plate contamination as a possible culprit is remote at this point. You’ve performed all the tasks a reasonable person could be expected to do. Glass cleaner won’t hurt, but it will now only eliminate the last possible “standard” cleaning method short of going to MEK or Trichloroethylene, which are a pain to source these days due to environmental restrictions. They also are in jeopardy of damaging the plate if the material is not our G10.
I’m going to focus on one paragraph of your response because I believe it yields some important evidence.
If I interpret your response correctly here, this is what I take away and I will include my comments where there is feedback to be given.
It is a dual-sided plate with photos of both sides included.
Each side has 3 photos, showing artifacts on both sides.
Both sides have an artifact of roughly the same size and shape in the same location; one artifact has shifted location.
** If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that flipping the plate to the opposite print surface yields a mirror image of the artifact, or are you saying your rotating the plate in the z-axis leaving the opposite surface the same? If your seeing the artifact on the mirror side of the opposite surface I would say this is your smoking gun pointing to a manufacturing defect. Contamination would be isolated to one surface not through and through.
There is a pattern of under-extrusion that persists when flipping the plate.
Flipping the plate moves the left side to the right and vice versa, showing an almost identical under-extrusion pattern on the opposite side.
** Again, if you’re referring to the opposite surface side, this is just more evidence of a plate defect.
Photos are taken to capture this, though it is difficult to see.
When held up to the light, the pattern matches almost perfectly.
** Just more mounting evidence of a plate defect.
Caliper measurements suggest it is a manufacturing defect in the plate thickness.
** By caliper measurements, may I assume you measured the thickness of the plate? If there is variation in thickness, bed leveling should compensate but only to a limit. If you’re plate is that far out of flatness or thickness and that deviation is in the same location as the artifacts, this more or less closes the case on this as being a plate defect.
You need to be commended for your perseverance and I think we all prefer to solve a mystery by ourselves rather than letting the machine beat us.But despite your valiant efforts, it may be time to call the game and ask the seller to provide you with a replacement if that is an option.
I don’t have much time for testing, so I decided to try a level check of the plate and go straight to the source to see if I could find evidence and I did. To the best of my knowledge, this is conclusive evidence of a plate defect. It’s lying on a thick glass sheet. This kind of warping cannot be good and given all other evidence, especially that everything was working fine until this plate came along, I guess that’s case closed?
Thanks again for your very informative input! I know where to go in the future should I ever have a question, which is comforting to know is an option.
But despite your valiant efforts, it may be time to call the game and ask the seller to provide you with a replacement if that is an option.
