How long are the PEI sheets supposed to work?

Bambu Lab P1 Series Troubleshooting
1

I have my printer since april, so for about 4 months now. In that time I accumulated, 1042 print hours. Recently, my golden PEI sheet (that the printer came with) started having adhesion issues that resulted in some prints lifting off the plate or first layers not sticking. When I bought the printer, I had insanely good adhesion, where even tiny things stuck without problems.

The last few weeks I had used my smooth pei sheet, and yesterday I wanted to switch back to the golden pei sheet. Before that, I gave it a good scrub with hot water and dish soap (for several minutes) to hopefully solve the aforementioned adhesion issues, but the result was worse than before I last used it.

As it has been a few weeks since then, I am not sure if the dish soap is the reason or something else. As of yesterday, nothing except for the prime line sticks to the bed (maybe some parts of the outer lines, but definitely no full prints). Because some lines were sticking, I spent a good amount of time getting the bed trammed, but that didn’t help either. While troubleshooting, I spent more time washing it (never has been that clean before lol), but nothing helped. Not even the other side of the golden PEI sheet, that I am never using, sticks.

After a lot of frustration, I tried to use the other side of my smooth pei sheet (that side is textured) without any tramming or cleaning and this was the result:

image
image1920Ă—1440 296 KB

(NOTE: That is not the golden PEI plate, it is black, the printer light just makes it look that way)

So it seems like that the issue is the golden PEI sheet and not the printer, I am thinking of the following reasons for why:

  • The sheet got worn out? (Not sure if that is really a thing, but some people on the internet say that it is a thing)
  • The dish soap is the problem and the previous times that I washed the sheet, worked coincidentally?
  • Bed Tramming (I think I eliminated that reason by using another sheet and doing it right)
  • Some other problem that I am not aware of

The plate itself looks almost like new (except for the destroyed coating at the top, but that was the printer):

IMG_20240822_163848
IMG_20240822_1638481920Ă—1972 729 KB

IMG_20240822_163833
IMG_20240822_1638331920Ă—1877 675 KB

I find it hard to believe that it is already worn out.

Right now, my plan looks like this:

  1. Throw it in the dishwasher and see if it works after that (then it might really be the dish soap)
  2. Try out a different dish soap
  3. Buy some acetone and wipe the plate with it? Some mentioned that this should restore the plate to what it was like before. (not keen on trying that one, because acetone is toxic)
  4. Throw away that sheet and buy a new one

Is there anything I could try out/have missed?

Summary of suggestions in this thread

For future reference, I will leave this here, in case anyone has the same issue
and wants a convenient overview of what to try.

  • Acetone (might damage you or the sheet, try at your own risk)
  • Steel Wool to scuff the sheet with water
  • Magic eraser?
  • Print something large in PLA at around 70°C bed temp to remove residue on the bed
  • Start with soap/detergent/plain laundry soap, then wipe it down with just water and a wet sponge, then clean it with a window cleaner (ideally with a bit of ammonia)
  • Use a 600-grid sandpaper

There are some more detailed instructions in the individual posts and some warnings of doing method X.

2

I wouldn’t put it in a dishwasher. Dishwasher soap is alkaline enough to etch glass with repeated washings. That might be harmful to the plate but don’t know that. I just know it’s a harsh environment. Could be ideal too but when does that happen? Just know you might see damage.

Acetone isn’t “that” toxic but you shouldn’t accumulate too much exposure. I believe some people can sensitize chemically to it. Mostly it just sucks oils right out of your skin. But if you do use it, it’s extremely flammable and you don’t want to let it dry on the plate. Flood it off with more acetone and then water, then dry with a clean paper towel. That’s to keep it from evaporating and redepositing any oils or cruft it lifted off at first. You want them carried off the plate before the acetone or water dry.

(Added - and I forgot to mention acetone is a fairly strong solvent that can damage plastics. I don’t know how safe it is on build plates. Most use IPA which doesn’t seem to cause any harm. But no idea about acetone and build plates.)

Some have said scuffing the surface with a steel wool pad can help. Never tried that but there are posts here about it.

1 Like
3

Just checking that you resliced the model for a textured sheet? Running a file generated for a smooth pei sheet on a textured sheet will have issues especially on a P series printer as it can’t differentiate between plates and generate an error like the X series can.

Scuffing the plate with fine steel wool will often rejuvenate a failing textured plate. There are also reports that Magic eraser will rejuvenate them.

3 Likes
4

After tight comes loose - it’s hard to say how long a PEI plate is supposed to work, because several factors play a role in adhesion. And I don’t like glue - I’d rather buy a new plate before I start using glue…

The time can range from being scrappy already upon delivery to forever (e.G. it takes a lot until the TPU no longer holds up).

If the condition of the PEI plate worsens, I’ll make a light mark in one corner.

Note: “The condition is no longer good is a broad term”. For example, I really like to place fine lettering on the textured board - the fact that the fine lettering holds and the i dot stays there if the sencond color comes around it is a completely different story than laying a whole sheet of 240x240 made of one material over the whole board.

If the black i dot is to be surrounded by white, a structured PEI plate can be at the limit or beyond it after 4 months… if not much earlier.

A PEI plate from the M5 is just about “still usable” when it is delivered and the black PEI plates from Bambulab, which are no longer sold, are scrapped faster than you count to 3.

I only use isopropanol to clean a plate - 1l lasts several months. Acetone, I stay away from it even though I have it too - By the way, if you want to check the authenticity of silicone. If the silicone is dissolved by acetone, it is not pure silicone but Chinese junk… So I only use acetone when I want to check whether someone has screwed me over or for cleaning metal surfaces that need to be 100% grease-free - with acetone, the source of the error at the supplier has to be 0 and I think to wipe a plate with acetone, the printers may comes from the wrong country.

5

I haven’t used the magic eraser, although I thought about it last night when I washed my plate. I use the yellow dish sponge with green scotch Brite on one side, warm water and dawn. Soap it up good with sponge side, a good scour with scotch Brite side, back to sponge side and rinse thoroughly. You can tell when it’s rinsed thoroughly because it practically dries itself with the water running off. Finish drying with dish towel laid flat on counter, folded over top side.

My hands are clean before starting and dry before I remove from tiel to put back in printer.

1 Like
6

I have this problem on occasion, especially after I wash my plates. I’ve found that the first few prints after cleaning the plate are always the worst. This might not work for you and it may not be advised by other users but what works for me almost every time is this:

  • after cleaning the plate I always set the bed for the first print to 70°C
  • print something with PLA (any kind of PLA has worked for me)
  • do a print that uses a good portion of the bed and/or set a brim around whatever you print

So far, this has worked for me every time. It leaves some residue on the bed and seems to make the adhesion work normally again. Also, it gets really humid in my workspace and that can cause all sorts of problems with my filament and adhesion. I store my filaments in vacuum sealed bags with lots of desiccant and use a filament dryer that has helped to mitigate adhesion issues as well.

7

I gave mine a good scrub with dish soap then dried it with a clean towel. Then found nothing would stick at all… Turned out to be the fabric softener. I washed it again, and dried it with paper kitchen roll and it was perfect after that.

6 Likes
8

:clap:

You’ve learned a valuable lesson through experience.

This post is worth framing. Many people claim they’ve done all the technical due diligence, but chemistry doesn’t care about what one knows or doesn’t know.

People often post here adamant that they “cleaned it thoroughly with IPA.” But was it 70% drugstore IPA? If so, what was in the other 30%?
image

You discovered it was fabric softener—an easy mistake. But what about the cloth used to wipe? Even microfiber cloths may have additives.

The point here is that there is more than one way to clean a plate. I’ve often found that the most reliable method is using very hot water with dishwashing detergent—definitely nothing that is “kind to your hands” because that “kindness” means moisturizers have been added, which end up on the surface being cleaned. Do I use IPA? Absolutely, but it’s 99% IPA, used in combination with a spray nozzle that acts like a mini pressure washer, ensuring that all contaminants are not redeposited onto the surface being cleaned.

5 Likes
9

Absolutely - and you should not use acetone according to Bambu, it can damage the surface.

2 Likes
10

@Olias

Where you’re right, you’re right - I use the industry standard of isopropanol, the level of 99.9% with a maximum of 0.1% contamination. At 99% I would already talk of isopropanol with foreign substances…

@Eli

for sure and as I sade, the only thing I know how suviefs Aceton is metal, (as well as ceramic and glas) and pur silicon. Acetone is well suited for testing cheap foreign substances in silicone… Even second-rate silicone will not survive acetone.

So if even bambulab points out that acetone should not be used, there must be wear on PEI even without acetone - no matter how small it may be.

11

Yep anything less than 90% IPA has glycol in it so not good for adhesion. I use 99.9% food grade so I know it’s clean.

1 Like
12

@Hank There are a few plastics that are not affected by acetone. But we don’t know what surface treatment those plates have on them, so best stay away from it. Bambu considers the plates consumable, so yeah there is wear. Not really sure what the symptoms of a worn out plate are, though I’d imagine you’d see the difference in texture/colour where it is worn.

1 Like
13

I usually wipe down my build plates with IPA and a paper towel or tissue after washing with dish soap, as some dish soaps can still contain oils (the aforementioned “friendly to skin” types) and the fibers and alcohol help remove any residual oils from that.
“Soothing” tissues and fabric softener or even regular laundry detergents are also a source of woe (oils).
PEI is in theory acetone-resistant enough to give it a brief wipe every once in a while, but I wouldn’t do it too often, if at all (maybe once a month if adhesion ever becomes a problem, at most), as it can cause embrittlement. Definitely don’t soak it. As Eli said, we don’t know what other stuff is added.
You could do a spot test on the part where the printer does a nozzle rub if you really want to find out.

14

I can’t see the wear and tear. The wear and tear is just reduced liability. But this doesn’t necessarily only have to be due to the PEI plate.

The only way I can recognize an aged or a bad plate:

  1. If the same filament (from the same roll in the immediately subsequent print) with the same printer settings sticks to one plate and not to the other. To make sure that you haven’t cleaned it badly, this has to happen 2 times in a row. Maybe I’ll try ones the brief wipe of @Anoran, it might break up another layer of things which we may don`t know.
  2. If the filament Greentec Pro or TPU (without glue) from the filament manufacturer extruder only has a single print that does not hold on the plate. The only two errors that come into question are an error in the Z offset or the PEI plate is scrap. But then the PEI plate is bad after unpacking at the first print and not after 2-3 months of use. And yes, the Flasfrog PEI plates for the M5 are s**** without glue only 9 out of 10 TPU prints are without problems (with glue 10 out of 10) - but the printer is so cheap that I can afford the glue :wink: Normally I expect for a “Good” 10 out of 10 prints with PETG without glue without any problems.
  3. Note: Until I call a PEI plate perfect, the lidar will break off (stop) every 30th-50th PETG Print.

Although I have to say:

I’ve never had a bad Golden PEI from Bambulab. Just one that no longer provides top performance. For me, top proformance really means a single dot of 0.8 x 0.8mm in one color so strong that it can be outlined with a second color and the color difference is still clearly visible, the dot of 0.8 x 0.8 is not torn off. Bad plates come from other print manufacturers or Alibaba and they are bad immediately after unpacking at the first print - although I have never hated a bad plate from Creality (although that is probably the only praise that Creality has received from me in a long time).

In the meantime, I also have so many PEI plates that the printer would have to run for 3 years to get 4 months of use on each textured PEI plate side.

1 Like
15

I posted this in a few other topics and the response from troubled users was always great.

We need a clean build plate, be it PEI or a sticker plate.
IPA is a great SOLVENT but it won’t work on all things and it WON’T BIND to what it dissolves.
What you get off stays diluted in the alcohol :wink:
Means you need to repeat the cleaning with a fresh load and cloth.

A far better way that ALWAYS works is to combine several things in order to make sure ALL possible things contaminating the plate are removed.
It starts with warm soapy water and a soft sponge.
Dishwashing detergent works but not all are good, prefer plain laundry soap - free from perfumes additives and such, just soap.
Wet the sponge, rub it over the soap and clean the plate :wink:
I do this on the kitchen benchtop to get a proper flat surface to apply a bit of gentle pressure.
Use two sponges and do it the Miagi way like in the movie - one hand puts it on, the other wipes it clean.
The soap molecule binds to water on one end to dirt, grime, oil and such on the other end.
What soap can take off will STAY OFF.
Rinse under the tap and observe how the water runs off!
Some plate materials repel water others allow it to forms a film.
Either way it should look even over the entire plate.
Spots or areas where it does not mean it is something left on it.
Repeat with the soap and if no good move on.
Next comes a good window cleaner, preferably with a slight amount of ammonia to it.
If no ammonia, no big deal - just try it on some mirror you filthied up with hand prints some lipstick kisses and such.
It all should come off EASY using a paper towel and once off and looking clean a second round with a fresh paper towel should leave a streak free and perfect mirror.
If it looks hazy when light goes over at a certain angle it means the cleaner left a residue.
That IS intended for some as it provides a dirt and water repelling affect - usually not visible under normal use conditions.
Avoid these glass cleaners.
Use the good one to spray onto the plate wait a few seconds and then wipe with a microfibre cloth.
Repeat and rub with the cloth a bit like you did with the sponge before.
Stop when the plate start to dry up.
One or two repeats is all it takes here.
If you want to know how good the glass cleaner is try on glass - when the paper towel starts to dry up and it produces a slight squeek under a gently pressure while moving it IS clean, squeeky clean.
No need for IPA unless your glass cleaner leaves a slight haze behind - there IS alcohol in the glass cleaner :wink:

How do I know it works?
I use this way for over a decade now and it even cleaned a plate the kids used for their playdoh in order to protect the carpet.
Give it a try if your prints struggle …

1 Like
16

What are you drying it with? Use a paper towel or hand towel that wasn’t dried with fabric softener.

Ipa before every print and dish soap once a month or when you see issues

17

Hi @StreetSports,

I use kitchen roll or toilet paper - But mostly I use kitchen rolls from the brand ZEWA, which has been a well-known german brand since 1960. There’s a line from Zewa that means “wipe and go”. Known about it since I was born into diapers and it will still work when I wear diapers again… and as long as they provide good disposable kitchen paper, I don’t have to look for a new brand

1 Like
18

I would strongly advise to stay away from Acetone. Even if doesn’t harm the plate, it removes the print, at least for the smooth PEI stickers.

19

I did advise extra caution, but that’s a good point, actually.

20

Acetone is ok once in a while if used with caution, but only once in a while as it can cause the PEI to crack and become brittle from repeat or prolonged exposure.

It can refresh a plate if all else fails but must be used sparingly and cleaned off immediately after with hot soapy water.

IPA is always the better choice as it’s kinder on PEI.

1 Like