I cannot get ABS support material to work

Bambu Lab X1 Series Bambu Lab X1C
1

First off, I’ll start by saying that I’ve tried with fully stock settings, and highly tweaked settings, so far, nothing has worked, and the Wiki’s recommendation has actually worked the worst of any settings. Otherwise, my printer works great, including Bamulab ABS prints.

What the heck is wrong with this filament?

I have at least 100 test prints now (all with slightly different settings), the number of prints with even a sliver of success is exactly 0. Zero for over 100.

Here is the latest print: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

one on the left has 0.2 mm bottom z distance and 0.1 mm top distance

one on the right has 0.12 mm bottom z distance, 0 mm top z distance (this is the recommended setting).

Keep in mind, this is with the MAX flush from ABS to support material possible.

The print is very hard to separate from the support, and the interface always sticks to the print. The best result I’ve had yet was 40% of the interface sticking to the print, but still a terrible underside.

There are extremely few Bambu Lab Support for ABS posts, am I just dumb and fell for a scam from Bambu or something?

2

Sorry, everyone is going to ask. Did you dry it? 80C 4hr?

3

I did not, specifically because Bambu said it is not necessary (though I know it will help). I figured my issue is a lot bigger than just moisture (I could be wrong though).

4

I just looked at the store page, it’s HIPS. You should probably dry it.

If you get too frustrated with removal it’s dissolvable, but your model will smell like that forever.

5

Ok, I will dry it tonight. Thank you for your advice, I will report back tomorrow with results!

6

Hmm, well I hope drying it isn’t a waste of time, seems to be a debatable question and some manufacturers suggest it and other says it’s not required.

“Adheres strongly to ABS” does seem to be commonly listed property, so maybe advertising it to use as a breakaway support isn’t such a great idea.

7

Yes, especially because in their advertisement photos for the product on their website, it has a super smooth bottom. Unless drying it changes its properties dramatically, it would be impossible for me to get those results even with dissolving it, because of how much they stick to each other (and scrape each other).

8

I’ve used it once, and did dry it (maybe not enough) using all standard settings. You really need a purge block for that stuff and I also adjusted the filament purge to 800 and set the multiplier to 1.5. This is need for small parts as any residue in the nozzle after a change from support to ABS will significantly weaken the layer adhesion. I only used it to get a better bottom supported layer, generally I find ABS supports really easy to remove.

2 Likes
9

Thanks for the input! Ok, I will try 1.5 multiplier (current at 1x, 800) next. I definitely notice a lot of residue and layer consistency issues with it. Started another print before making this post with 5 interface layers purely for adhesion purposes. For the first time I can at least see a consistent white layer on top, we’ll see how well it turns out.

10

That’s finish I got with it. I tried to using it for making light pipe guides for surface mount LEDs and had to be really careful removing them so as not to break them all.

2238D622-0512-4845-A65C-BFA48F04E7A5
2238D622-0512-4845-A65C-BFA48F04E7A51920×3413 960 KB

11

Both HIPS and ABS need to be dried to be printed successfully. If you’re not drying, that is unquestionably contributing to your problem.

Unfortunately, it’s hard to see exactly what the problem is from the video you posted. It’d be more information to post a nice, closeup picture of the print as it came off the build plate.

I can see it spitting out pieces of HIPS, though. That’s something that can be caused by wet filament. Wet filament causes oozing, stringing and over extrusion.

Most plastics absorb moisture from the air. Some more than others. ABS is particularly hydrophilic (water loving). So is Nylon.

Nylon, as it turns out, can also be used as a support for ABS/ASA.

It tends to stick a little stronger, but PETG also works for ABS.

And there’s a support material called PVA that’s usually used with PLA but will also work for ABS. PVA won’t pull free, it sticks. But it is water soluble. Better option IMO than HIPS if you’re looking for dissolvable supports.

So unless you want HIPS for its dissolvability, you have other choices that may be easier to print.

[EDIT]

Also worth mentioning… since you’re printing ABS I’m going to assume it’s a functional part and not something purely decorative. When you’re printing a dedicated support for something functional you need a pissload of purging when switching from the support back to the primary filament. If you don’t purge enough, your prints will delaminate along layer lines. It only takes a little bit of contamination to significantly reduce the layer adhesion. When I print dedicated support for ABS/Nylon/PETG I push 1000 for the purge volume going back to the primary filament.

1 Like
12

Thanks for the response, I’m back after a couple days of testing.

  1. You are absolutely right, the ABS support filament absolutely needed to be dried. I’m not sure why Bambu Labs not only says but even encourages its use without drying, in my case, it was like using two completely different filaments.
  2. My results also back your purging claim. I’m not sure why Bambu Studio is warning me about an 800 purge when that’s not even enough, 800 at 1.5 multiplier is a minimum for me.

My part needs form and function, in the internal section (the supported section) can be ugly af, but the outside needs to be clean.

I’m still testing, but it seems like I cannot get 0 Top Z-distance, 0.05 mm is the lowest it will go until it starts dragging again. This MAY be caused by an insufficient purge volume. Will run another test today with near-zero Top Z-distance with a massive purge to see if that fixes the issue.

Thank you very much for your help!!! I will continue to update.

1 Like
13

Ok, so I tried drying it and… and I just don’t get it.

The first few prints immediately after drying were great, the problems went away, it was behaving exactly as it should. However, the day after, the ABS Support was absolutely garbage again.

So, logically, I threw it on the print bed and dried it again… except there was no silver lining the second time. It prints just as bad as it ever has.

I set purge to 800 at 1.5 multiplier.

I just don’t get it, I followed exactly what Bambu said to do, I feel legitimately scammed by them as I bought 4 spools of this.

14

I dried it, it printed great, next day, issues were back. Dried it again, issues didn’t disappear this time.

I have no idea what the issue is.

15

Drying using the heated build plate is not a very effective way of drying. You really need a purpose-built dryer.

Plastic is a good insulator. You apply heat in a dryer to the outside of the roll. You need to keep the heat going until it’s soaked all the way in to the gooey nougat center. And then, once it’s warmed up you need to keep the heat going for many hours to give the moisture a chance to get driven out.

You have already determined that drying makes a difference. The conclusion from your experience is that the method you’re using to dry isn’t sufficient.

I do 24 hours in a real dryer. 70ºC for everything except PLA. If you’re using the printer as a dryer, you probably need 48 hours or more. And if you can’t get the build chamber hot enough (which you can’t), the amount of moisture driven off will be limited, no matter how long you keep the heat going, the filament will still have too much moisture.

If you don’t have an AMS, filament will re-absorb water fairly quickly. It depends on how humid and warm the ambient environment is. But some filaments like Nylon can reabsorb their maximum water content in less than a day.

I feel legitimately scammed by them

Then you didn’t understand what you were getting in to when you purchased your printer. This has nothing to do with BBL or their filament. It’s an issue that is common to 3D printing in general. Doesn’t matter who made the printer or filament, the filament will absorb moisture from the air and print quality will degrade if you don’t do anything about it.

1 Like
16

I’m going to challenge you on a couple things if that’s alright, not because I think I’m right (I obviously am clueless lol), but because Bambu themselves are quite explicit in stating the opposite of what you’re saying.

You said HIPS needs to be dried out before use.
You said the filament will re-absorb fairly quickly (I’m using AMS btw).
You said drying using the build plate is not that effective.

This is a quote directly from the Bambu Lab Wiki for Support for ABS:

Preparation and protection before printing

The main component of Support for ABS is High Impact Polystyrene (HIPS). It is not sensitive to moisture and does not easily absorb water from the air, so it usually does not require drying before printing.

In 4 other places (3 in the Wiki, 1 on the store), Bambu states that drying Support for ABS is not necessary, and will only mildly improve support results.

I have a hard time seeing how the filament which according to them is “not sensitive to moisture” could go from useless to seamless to useless again in less than 24 hrs after drying exactly exactly how they specify, including a second round of drying - which they and other sources have said high heats are not necessary to penetrate HIPS (I did 95 degrees Celcius bed heat + cover for 6 hours, flipping once).

My point is not to point fingers or anything like that, but rather to suggest that moisture does not seem like the issue here. If moisture is the issue here, than I standby about being scammed by Bambu because they’d dead wrong about their own filament, in that case. Otherwise, I’d have to imagine the issue is something different than that.

17

I can’t explain what BBL says. Do some searching on-line. HIPS needs to be dried. All filaments absorb moisture and need to be dried for optimal results. It’s just that some absorb less and you might get away without drying that type (like PLA). Or you might not care about the effects moisture has on your print (if it’s not too bad).

You have already proven that moisture is the factor here. Direct cause and effect with the successful prints you achieved with the initial drying. You just don’t realize how long it takes to actually dry a roll of plastic in the build chamber (a loooong time) and how quickly filament will reabsorb moisture after drying (it can be very fast in a humid environment, which is why the X1/P1 AMS is enclosed and has pockets for desiccant, to slow down how quickly the filament gets wet again), so you think there’s some other explanation for what’s happening.

There isn’t. This is almost certainly “it”.

If you feel BBL misled you that’s a discussion you need to have with BBL technical support. If you want to print, then forget what you think is happening and just follow my advice. :slight_smile:

1 Like
18

Ok, as promised, I have a follow-up, with at least the cause of the issues, and a partial solution.

I went back and copied EVERYTHING from the Wiki, no exceptions, reset any adjusted setting to stock, then made my screen look identical to theirs.

The issue is the layer height. I don’t know why it happens, I don’t know why Bambu Lab doesn’t mention this, but I can print flawlessly at “0.2mm Standard”, but I cannot print Support for ABS at all anything below 0.2mm.

It does not mention this anywhere in the Support Wiki page, ABS Wiki page, nor the Support for ABS Wiki page.

The first time I dried the filament, I used their model which defaulted to 0.2mm standard, sometime after that point, I switched the layer height, and that’s what caused the discontinuity.

After doing a little research online, every case I’ve found of others having a similar issue, when they provide the layer height, they’re all printing under 0.2mm. Suffice to say, it would appear there is a serious issue printing Support for ABS under 0.2mm. Some people may print under that and be fine, but the issues with sufficient data show that it’s problematic at least for some people. I can’t seem to find any settings that would allow me to adjust the Support line parameters either, to at least mitigate the issue.

I cannot find anything from BBL warning people about this, or even suggesting this, but it seems clear from their screenshots that they only stick to 0.2mm for Support for ABS, and most support interfaces.

19

Hey Mate, was this printed at 0.2mm layer height or higher? I’m finding that 0.2mm standard BBL profile is perfect, 0.12mm is unusable.

20

Out of curiosity, do you have independent support layer height turned on or off?