Since attempts to crack the RFID on the spools is stagnant, Bambu Labs, IMO, should offer stand alone tags we can order with pre-programmed filament types and colors (“Generic ASA”, “Generic PETG” etc…). It seems like something low cost to them but I would pay to know what my filament levels are while I am at work and running a 24hr print off of spools that were less than brand new out of the box. As a user that is already unwilling to pay Bambu’s markup/ unsatisfied with their material and color offerings as of now, it strikes me as a lost opportunity cost where they could at least generate revenue by selling a tag that reset after the predetermined number of rotations (as I assume filament levels are tracked using this manner). Given how cheap they are and how quickly I know for a fact they can be programmed en masse, it seems like a product I would not be alone in being willing to spend 10$ per tag for filament colors and materials which I use frequently.
The AMS system is core to the Bambu ecosystem and isn’t going anywhere. They already possess the infrastructure to produce their first party tags, scaling up this aspect seems low cost, high margin, assuming they are employing modern automation. I’d love to hear other people’s thoughts on whether you believe the payback period for the machinery needed to write tags in this manner would exceed demand in the short term for this to be a viable consideration for BL!
I am finishing my industry 4.0 BAS this year and my Seimens RFID batch processor lab equipment had me thinking about this every time I am in the lab. Lets say the equipment cost $1m USD( I have no idea what it costs so I’m using a reasonable round number for an industry of scale.) if they can net 10-15$ per tag sold, and assuming they have sold 10x as many units as Kickstarter backers, it doesn’t seem like a bad idea from a business’ standpoint. I know all my estimates are probably ridiculously high and off the mark and I’d love to have a discussion if anyone has more correct figures!! Thanks for reading and replying!
Selling RFID tags for every filament type and colour is, in my opinion, completely pointless and logical nonsense.
It would be easier if Bambulab gave up the encryption of the tags and they were freely readable or, for example, everyone could write their own tags with the filament type of their choice using the Smartphoen app. Every modern smartphone can write RFID tags - I currently use this for various smart home things.
Small technical detail: phones use NFC tags, which are not the same as the RFIDs used in stock management. RFID and NFC tags use very different frequencies. I do not know if BAMBU use RFID or NFC tags. NFC type 5 tags can be written to by phones, but it is not necessary for this purpose. You can get NFC tags pre-encoded with a GUID that you can read - this is what many people do for security purposes - you tell the app to trigger something when your phone reads that NFC tag’s ID.
So, in theory, you could do the same with an NFC tag sold by Bambu: associate the random identifier already assigned to it with a specific filament, using the mobile app for example. But, if they are using RFID tags, then this will not work as phones cannot read stock-control type RFID tags.
I think the simplest solution that everyone will be able to use, would be to allow user filaments to be sent to the machine. In the last few updates to BBS they’ve added a vendor field which says it’s for info only, this could potentially become another menu option in the vendor drop-down list on the AMS screen. Which would ease the pain a lot, loading up an old project that you want to reprint results in you having to resync the AMS and then reassign each filament again. A real PITA
From the last podcast/interview with Bambu Lab CEO that I watched, I recall that the plan is to grant their RFID tag system to other filament manufacturers; if I remember, they were negotiating with some filament brands.
I am unsure if they will stick with this objective, but getting the tags for generic filament may not be easy.
You need to know how wide the spool is, and the diameter of the inner spindle the filament is wrapped around, and the diameter of the spool itself, and the diameter of the filament. Then, you also have to assume the filament is reasonably tightly wound.
The system guesstimates how much filament is left by measuring how fast the spool turns as the AMS feeds the filament at a fixed speed. How fast the spool turns is inversely proportional to remaining filament (it goes faster as the filament is depleted).
It would be a potential new source of revenue if BBL sold tags that could be programmed, or if not programmed, they just have to be “unique”. Tape a tag to a random spindle of filament and then tell the AMS what the filament is, so the tag ID would be associated with that specific user filament through the miracle of software… vs. what they do now which is associate a tag ID with a filament type in advance. So the capability to do this already exists, they’d just have to be motivated to do it.
I have a battery charger for my radio control airplanes that uses RFID tags in this way. I stick a tag to a battery (batteries come in a wide variety of configurations, each requiring a unique charging configuration), I tell the charger what parameters to use for that battery, and then every time I want to charge the battery I just bump the pack on the charger and it reads the config and does its thing automatically.
This was my thought exactly! The automation lab has a station set for doing batch RFID tags for inventory management and tracking. Its a fully automated conveyor system with tags loaded by a magazine and written in batches.
Id be satisfied if they themselves sold them as standalone tags, programmed for vendor spool size and color (as mentioned above in other metrics that go into calculating remaining capacity). I wont buy bambu filament at current prices. They can offset that lost opportunity cost by a one time purchase from me for 8-16 tags (over time). And lets be honest, a sub 20$ price point isnt going to run anyone off for the most part in this hobby, with the utility it would offer, in lieu of them just allowing end users to write their own tags (would be a real nice feature for Bambu studio, just sayin…). They could even sell a proprietary writer with serialized encryption keys to stay on brand with their “walled garden” approach, as much as I despise that route. AND these things are small, fragile, get lost, stepped on, vacuumed up, ect… People will be buying over and over. Maybe I should stop giving them ideas.
Bambu clearly felt it added value for their filament. So it would, logically, add the same value for any other filament… if each particular tag could be programmed (or Studio programmed for each particular tag).
Bambu clearly felt it added value for their filament. So it would, logically, add the same value for any other filament… if each particular tag could be programmed (or Studio programmed for each particular tag).
If you say so. And, if that’s the case, then what is the incentive for Bambu to open that up to others, when they could accomplish the same thing through having the user enter parameters themselves.
Let’s say they do decide to open that up to other filament manufacturers. Do you think they should charge a royalty or some other fee for the use of the RFID system? They are a company, they have to make money somehow.
People can pontificate on the forums all they want about what they think Bambu should do for them, or what should be free or not, but in the end, companies exist to make money. Bambu innovated, and they should get paid for it. And, if they’re going to share that innovation, they should also get paid for that. It’s the way the real world works.
The general assumption seems to be that the rfid/nfc contain the information of the filament properties. Is this a known “fact”, or might it be that the tag only contains a guid or similar that is used with the Bambu cloud to identify the filament?
The tag tells the AMS what filament is in the slot. The Slicer uses that information to locate the filament settings and slice the model. I don’t think the tag contains any information on the filament, only a unique identifier the slicer can use to figure out what the filament is. So if you could get a tag programmed for “My favorite generic filament” and the Slicer was configured for that filament, you could drop your spool of generic in the AMS and get all the same automatic features as you get with a spool of Bambu filament. You enter the parameters once and get them loaded up automatically every time you put that 3rd party filament back in your AMS.
If you say so. And, if that’s the case, then what is the incentive for Bambu to open that up to others, when they could accomplish the same thing through having the user enter parameters themselves.
As I said in my earlier post, Bambu’s incentive is to sell/license the tags to end users and other filament manufacturers. They make money on this the same way every other company with protected IP makes money - licensing and direct sales to end users.
No one is suggesting BBL do this for free. That’d be a pretty stupid/nonsensical proposal.
IMHO, whether Bambu opens up RFID tags or not will depend a lot on the market. I have an X1C and it’s my first 3d printer. I’m very happy with the machine but I’m constantly grated by Bambu’s attempts at a closed ecosystem. I’m sufficiently pissed off that I’m only buying Bambu filament if I believe that it’s clearly superior to others. Whether my second printer is going to be a Bambu is a good question, if it weren’t for this closedness I would say “yes unless I need features they don’t have, such as larger build size” but as it stands my current feeling is that I would most likely look elsewhere. So in the end it really depends on where people decide to spend their money (and how other offerings in the market evolve).
You are completely missing the point. You can currently load in a generic filament, and tell the printer via the front screen what it is. The potential is there to add filament and spool details right along with the brand and color. That gets pulled over to the slicer. No RFID needed. Give us the ability to save that in the FW, no RFID needed.
The slicer isn’t determining the remaining filament capacity on the spool, which seems to be the main reason. Folks are clamoring for RFID functionality on non Bambu spools.