Hi , i do not lower the bed temp and run it at 110C through the whole print
and yes the corners are night mare with out heated chamber which is the bambu
Not sure why you lower the nozzle temp ASA is printed at 255-265C, and i had it going and better results with pushing it to the higher limit . And with the settings mentioned in my last post.
No need to minimize the difference between the nozzle and the bed , the problem is uneven temperature across the Bed it self and across the chamber.
Note that if you are in a cold room the problem is worse 30 minutes pre-heat may not be enough. and if you have some air flow around the printer not sure if doable at all. The fact that you can’t reach above 46C points that is cold or air-flow
I have set-up the printer in area with out any air-flow and even then sometime i turn on a heater near the printer.
I think i got to 7 or 8 big plates printed before get a good success . But have not printed a big objects for a while now.
I’ve only been in the 3d printing game for a few months but have been through a number of decent size ASA prints with some success. As others have mentioned, turning fans off helps (I have 10% part cooling only). I have my heated set to 108C and will let chamber warm up prior to starting print. I have also designed/printed my own poop chute that essentially covers the huge hole at the back of the printer. I’ve also got a strip of painters tape along the hinge side of the glass door. This seems to keep the chamber temp warmer and fluctuate less. One other thing I’ve noticed when printing ASA is that I have higher success rate when my bentobox is running. If you are unfamiliar with the bentobox it’s basically an air scrubber designed to filter out VOCs. It works by sucking air through a hepa filter and charcoal pellets and back into the chamber. Anecdotally, I rarely have warping issues when I remember to turn it on for my prints. I like to believe that the scrubber is circulating the air in the chamber in such a way that perhaps reduces some of the temperature gradients across the vertical space.
X1C chamber doors etc. all taped off. Printer is located in medium sized repurposed walk-in closet. Closet door kept closed for entire run. Ambient room temperature ~ 75F; Humidity ~20%.
Preheated bed to 120C for about 2 hours. Chamber temperature rose to 50C.
At start of print lowered bed temp to 110C with extruder temp set to 250C. Chamber temp held steady at 49-50C for entire 13 hour print.
After print completed, let everything cool down naturally for about 4 hours.
Print readily popped off Engineering plate coated with glue stick.
Final result below minus the 5mm brim. Good quality. Just a very minor pull up of plate (~.5mm) at corners. Acceptable to me although would love to get that extra bit to lay flat. There is a minor horizontal “seam” all the way around at the point where the interior floor stops and the outer wall continues. I think this is due to some cooling since the top on the interior is ironed which took a long time.
A couple of questions for next run:
With other settings unchanged, any possible advantage to raising or lowering extruder temp from 250C?
Thinking the ironing of the interior floor might be a significant source of differential cooling. Currently using 15% gyroid infill. Upping that percentage and /or changing infill type might possibly retain more heat? Or perhaps change the ironing to complete sooner.
Really appreciate everyone’s input to date. While not perfect this print is major improvement over previous.
Dunno about the seam. Hotter nozzle might help, but it may degrade other parts. I’d try to reduce the ironing time and perhaps raise temp a small amount and see whether that gets you to an acceptable compromise.
Another option is to consider changing the design so the seam line doesn’t show. E.g. reduce the rounding so it ends where the seam is, or switch to a chamfer or multiple facets such that a facet ends at the seam. (I can’t see the exact shape you have, so I’m guessing a bit.)
Yet another option might be to have the printer stop after the ironing and then to manually bump the nozzle temp by a significant amt for the next layer. Dunno how feasible that is and I fear it may result in artifacts anyway.
The “seam” you get on the outside, where an interior floor surface ends, is a mystery artifact of the printer. Many people experience the issue (me included). It’s nothing to do with ironing (since I don’t use it). There’s an inner wall above this point, and it all has 25% gyroid infill. There is no mechanical reason for this to be here. What’s on the other side of this seam is exactly the same on the layer below and above it. The difference is about 10mm away, on the inside. It should have no effect. If it was cooling, it wouldn’t “recover” on the next layer, there’d be an offset that’d remain on all subsequent layers.
Here’s an example from one of my ASA prints (bit blobby, too, since I hadn’t tuned PA).
Reducing extruder temp from what you’re using now might help with the minor lifting at the corners, though it could hurt layer adhesion. Going hotter will exacerbate warping. One thing you can try is a small radius on the bottom edge, so the very bottom most layers are progressively a tiny bit smaller than the next few layers above (like 10% or 15% steps). Might afford those higher layers a little bit more “compliance” as they shrink, letting them get smaller before they start pulling up on that bottom-most layer.
I’m continuing my battle against large ASA prints warping and recently pressed the buy button on a LIghtyear G10 plate hoping that it would resist being pulled up by the print. Well, so far it has not been working that well. I first tried without glue, just well washed with soap, and I found adhesion to be lacking. The print pulled up pretty early:
I then applied the bambu liquid glue, which resulted in better adhesion but the print still warped. I only saw it once it was cooled and mostly loose from the plate, so I’m not sure whether it pulled off during printing or lifted the plate. In any case the 200mm long test model lifted 0.65mm at one end and .55mm at the other. This is within margin of error of what I get on the textured PEI plate.
Question: what is the best way to ensure ASA sticks to G10?
My print settings are:
PolyLite ASA
260C nozzle, 100C bed, 40-45C chamber (I’m working on a heater)
You want to minimize the difference between the build plate and extrusion temps. Plastic extruded hotter shrinks more as it cools. Crank the build plate all the way up, drop the extrusion temp by 10 or 15º and see if that makes a difference. It should.
I just checked my eSun eASA i print at 240C and esun ABS at 270C , i think when i was doing big objects , it was cranked from 240C to 260C but cant remember if it had any effect, even my memory is that it did . at really lower speed first layer 35mms and everything else 70 mmS , but my normal ASA profile is first layer 50mm/S , FLInfill 105, outer wall 140mmS , inner wall 160 , infill 200 , gap infill 140, top surface 140, support interface 80
The Infill type makes a difference for the warping - i personally use rectilinear usually 20-25%. not sure ironing will help for anything here but let us know
Retaining heat is probably important , but probably more important is the stress directions while cooling
@bobmassey1 One Important note: from your print surfaces it looks like something is not quite tunned which also makes a difference - a bit under extruded , or the K(dynamic pressure advance) factor a bit off , or wet filament
Thanks @vladimir.minkov for the encouragement. Getting ready to do the other half of box. This piece takes up the entire plate so I need to use the mod to deactivate the cutter etc. and run the spool external. This half has several indentations at the surface so I need support. Since I can’t use AMS I’ll need to have my support be ASA. Any recommendations on support settings using ASA, in particular the interface level?
Printing at 245C seems to work fine for me so far. I did recalibrate using OrcaSlicer tuning. Don’t remember if I did before or after printing the large box half. But I’ll revisit this…
I gave up long time ago to use multi material for supports , as it takes much longer
the support i lately i use this normal as the tree does not work on some surfaces
but i do increase some times from 0.2 to 0.3 the Top Z distance easier to remove
You could just as well turn it off right away - it’s the exact same thing. It wont cool slower just because you decrease it in steps.
Or did I misunderstand something here? Maybe you meant decrease by 10°, and when it reaches that wait 5 [or something] minutes, then decrease 10° again? That would make a difference.
I did print PolyLite ASA again @250C/105C as @RocketSled suggested. It did make a small difference. There’s a tradeoff between layer adhesion and warping there, sigh.
Then I remembered I have some FormFutura ApolloX ASA to try. They claim “no warping”, ha! So I tried and it was good, but not flat: 0.3mm lift at the two ends of my 200mm test piece. They recommend 235C-255C nozzle temp, so it feels like they must blend something in that allows for slightly lower nozzle temps. I printed another piece @240C/105C and this time I was careful at the end of the print:
it did not lift from the G10 plate (I used liquid glue)
it was not flat
the G10 didn’t seem to be lifted from the bed, but really hard to tell by eye
I then grabbed a ruler (this is before detaching the print and after it had cooled a bit):
So to get a 100% flat print the G10 plate has to get bowed the other way by the magnets on the heating bed that is not 100% flat. Clearly the odds are stacked against a flat print!
I checked the heating bed again after a couple of hours: when cold it is flat, and the G10 on top is also flat. I then heated to 110C and I can get at least a 0.1mm feeler under the center. I suspect once everything is well heat soaked that it becomes a bit more. So in the end it seems that it’s death by a 100 paper cuts:
the bed warps by 0.1-0.15mm when hot
the G10 may not conform 100% to the heating bed and add another 0.1mm
the print, even when it doesn’t lift up may still pull up some 0.05mm at the ends
when removed from the G10 the print may snap up another 0.05-0.1mm at the ends from internal tension
the result is the 0.25-0.3mm I observe in the best case
I’m thinking that the fix to all this might be to put a 0.3-0.5mm piece of aluminum or other metal under the center of the G10 plate, perhaps 60mm x 60mm to cause the G10 to dome slightly instead of being slightly depressed in the center. This assumes that the magnets manage to pull the perimeter of the G10 plate down, of course. To be continued…
Actually it does cool a lot slower due to the dT is only 10C not 50C, and especially adding 5 minutes extra intervals
this is my G code end of printer for ASA but something wrong not sure why X1C does reset it , if i use M140 S105 works , but M190 R105 resets it to 0
M190 R105
G4 S300
…
@RocketSled that is exactly what happens to me on a long ABS piece I am trying to print (frame for an AMS/ventilation cover for my X1C). I describe it another thread as a “canoe” shape, flatter on top because of the squish… but still slightly curved on top as well.
Of the tons of knowledge shared in this thread (thanks!) it would look like the only solvable part of this problem would be to minimize stress by bringing chamber temperatures close to material temps. Or, as I shared with @3dsurfr in another thread, change printing strategy and print in pieces along the shaft.
And after all of that, we remain at the mercy of the plate, which is probably going to act independently, because of fabrication strategies that are not reversible.
Great finding i checked on my plate with 180mm x20mm devider object which have printed before with pla . This time with Asa after 4 prints centered in the middle all had around 0.25 warp at the end and varies from infill cool time and etc but the best case was 0.200
Then checked the plate and yes it is curved after heating it .
Not sure about solution for this one . But i started print on the edge of the plate just to see the result
And will try on the prusa but will check if the plate is flat fitrst after heating it . But there will be challenge for ASA as no enclosure
Edit 0.25 each end givise me 0.5mm in the middle which is far from acceptable
@3dsurfr thanks again. I measured my base plate(heat Bed) on cold and it has a curve of >=0.4mm less than 0.5mm i am pretty sure a few months back was not like that. I have been printing mainly at 110C ( abs/asa ) . Only in one direction is curved the other direction looked ok or is less than 0.1mm. And on hot is bigger still to do do accurate measurement so do not think this was warping
Hello, I’m also struggling to print Bambu ASA on my X1C. I’m a bit confused about your explanations. Do you suggest to reduce the delta T between the bed and the chamber, or between the bed and the hotend? In your first message I understood that I need to reduce the delta T between the plate and the chamber (by setting the plate a 90 °C for example), but now If I understand correctly your advice is to put my bed at the hotest temperature (110°C for me) with the hotend at the lowest allowed temp?
I’m using a smooth PEI plate with glue stick. My chamber temp maxes out at around 46 °C. I print at 270 °C because I also have some layer adhesion issues… I may also need to tune the cooling fans to improve the layer adhesion (I use the settings from the ASA preset).
You want to minimize the delta between the bed temp and extrusion temps. The greater the delta, the greater the temperature change and the greater the amount of warp-inducing shrinkage. The chamber temp is always less than the bed and extruder, but a hotter chamber also reduces the rate of cooling and associated shrinkage. With the possible exception of bridging, I don’t think you want the fans on at all for ASA. If your part fan is running, that may be why you have bad adhesion and need the higher extrusion temp.
I print ASA at 250ºF. Minimal warping issues, and mostly only on larger parts and only near the front corners where the door leaks air in to the chamber.
Did you mean a nozzle temperature of 250°C or a bed temperature of 250ºF (which happens to be 120°C)?
For the life of me I can’t understand why Bambu don’t use the target chamber temperature vs. current chamber temperature, and only that, for controlling the chamber fan during print, and possibly also for some heuristics with the aux fan. They only seem to use it for heating, in the X1E.
