Licensing and Transfer

MakerWorld
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Questions (and hopefully answers) on the Standard Digital File license.

Pardon my newbie question, but I’ve read the Standard Digital File license, and I wonder how it is viewed/followed.

The license states:
You shall not share, sub-license, sell, rent, host, transfer, or distribute in any way the digital or 3D printed versions of this object, nor any other derivative work of this object in its digital or physical format (including - but not limited to - remixes of this object, and hosting on other digital platforms). The objects may not be used without permission in any way whatsoever in which you charge money, or collect fees.

I’ve highliged the portions that give me concern. The way I read that license, if I print a cute cat that is available with this license, and give it to one of my (many) grandchildren, I’m violating the license (that is a transfer of the printed version). How is the (seemingly obvious) confilct resolved? Do all of you print these things only for your use? Is there some tacit agreement that giving away to family (friends, visitors at church, ???) is OK, it’s really only the selling without permission we all get heartburn over?

Thanks. Again, sorry for the newbie question, but I’m looking at how the licensing is done (hoping to eventually sell some models), and want to understand.(Edited)

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I’ve taken the license in exactly the same way as you are reading it. For prints that are leaving my home I reach out to the model author and ask for their direct permission. If there is ever a problem, I can go back to my records to prove I’m in the clear.
Bambu requires use of the Standard Digital File license for participation in their Exclusive program. Since it’s also the default license selected on a model upload I’ve discovered some creators don’t understand the limitations of it. In those cases I’ve asked them to consider the other licenses and have seen some of them adopt a different license after the discussion.

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This language applies more so to commercial ventures/use. If this was applied towards grandparents printing stuff for family, it’d hit up against consumer protection laws.

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Huh? So they can do all of those things as long as it isn’t for commercial purposes?

Be careful giving away other creator’s rights Josh, when I use the SDFL I mean exactly what it says.

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Well, there’s such things as the First Sale Doctrine, which allows someone who legally acquires a physical item to resell or give it away.

To be bluntly honest. If anyone wants to print one of my models and give it to their friend/child/parent/dog/whatever, as long as it’s not done for commercial intent, you should feel free to. It is completely and utterly stupid to suggest that a grandparent can’t print something for their grand child, when it’s not done for commercial intent.

If you want to start a business as a grandparent, selling models to your grand children, that would be commercial intent. If you want to print card shufflers for all your grand kids for Christmas though, and you’re not selling them or anything, have at it.

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Indeed there is. And that means if someone has a valid license to 3d print and distribute something then their purchasers can dispose of the legally obtained items as they see fit. It doesn’t mean “if you downloaded the file no rules apply”.

Like I said, give away all the rights to your models that you want.

Don’t give away mine.

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That’s not what I said, and you’re misconstruing my words by implying as much. I said if someone prints an object off of makerworld, there shouldn’t be any reason they can’t give that physical object to a friend/family member, as long as it’s not for commercial intent.

And so, let me ask you then. If I printed one of your models because I thought my sister would like it, am I now bound to seek your permission to gift that model to her? I’m not trying to sell it, or claim it as my own. I’d just be printing the model, taking it from the print bed, and physically handing it to her.

Is this right? Is this the reality you’re arguing for?

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For my models under the SDFL the reason they shouldn’t is because they would be violating the license. When I use the SDFL I mean exactly what the license reads. Commercial intent or not, my models are for personal use only.

What is unclear about the license?

You shall not share, sub-license, sell, rent, host, transfer, or distribute in any way the digital or 3D printed versions of this object, nor any other derivative work of this object in its digital or physical format

How could that be any simpler? It means what it says. When I use the SDFL I chose that license for a reason, I had other license choices as well but I picked that one.

For people who like my designs they are welcome to contact me, and I may, or may not, give them permission to distribute it. But that is my choice. Please do not give them incorrect legal advice that they can simply ignore terms of licenses that they don’t like, you are being discourteous to me. What if someone asks if they can sell your designs on etsy and I reply “oh Josh’s designs? He really means you can’t sell them in volume, like on Amazon. Etsy is OK.”

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You’re being disingenuous. I never talked about selling something. I talked about printing a model and giving it to my sister, which clearly you’re against.

So your reaction to me wanting to give my sister a model I printed is to go and tell people it’s okay to commercially sell my content.

To me, it just seems a bit messed up. Honestly I wouldn’t want to print stuff from a designer that would get so bent out of shape at the concept that I’d print something neat for my sister and give it to her, without first seeking permission. Again, no money would be transferred, and no commercial intent is there. It’s just a gift for my sister.

Does she need to download the model herself and print it? Is it acceptable if she uses my 3d printer, or does she need to own her own? Is it okay with you if she uses my filament, or does she need to supply her own on that too?

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Let’s just flush this idea out a little further.

It’s not acceptable for grandpa to 3d print a model for their grand child. What if, however, grandpa invited their grand child over and had the child get on grandpa’s computer, download the model, and send it to the printer themselves, because grandpa can’t.

Is that acceptable?

At which point is it acceptable? Does the grand child need their own computer? Their own printer? Would they not be allowed to use Grandpa’s printer because it’s his? Are they not allowed to use his computer to download the model themselves?

And if grandpa printed the model and gave it to the grandchild vs grandpa directing the child to the model so they can download it and print it, what really is the difference? The end outcome is the same, but one method is more acceptable to you, because…? You don’t want people printing stuff for each other? I don’t know…

I better ring up my dad and tell him to stop printing stuff for his grandson, least he run into legal trouble. :roll_eyes:

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To that extent, what happens if I throw one of my models out and someone picks it out of the trash? Will I get in trouble then? Will they?

What about my box full of misc prints. Am I not allowed to give those away now? Am I only allowed to either throw them away or melt them down into something else?

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No, I’m against you interpreting a plain-language license for other people in a way that gives away my rights. To remind you what you wrote and what I disagreed with:

I don’t choose to differentiate between commercial and non-commercial distribution and the SDFL doesn’t do that. I don’t want someone printing 1000 copies of my work and giving them away for free. That is my right. Just because you disagree whether those are sensible or desirable restrictions for a creator to place on a work doesn’t give you the right to induce people to violate the license. If you think the restrictions of the SDFL are absurd you could lobby Makerworld to create a license with terms you like, say, the SDFL2. But you don’t get to invalidate the existing SDFL for people who specifically chose it.

You can create as elaborate a straw man as you like, have fun.

Again, if you don’t like the SDFL ask Makerworld to add a license you do like. You don’t get to “reinterpret” the existing one for other people.

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You provide the file on Makerworld, and thousands download and print it, but you don’t want someone to print it and give it to their grand child, despite no money exchanging hands… (There is nothing commercial about this exchange, it is personally personal) Heck, it was provided for free on Makerworld, so how is it any different than anyone else downloading and printing it? Why is it a sin for someone with a hobby of 3d printing to share that printed object with someone they care about/love?

To clarify, I am not talking about someone downloading and printing something a thousand times and giving it out. I’m talking about someone printing something out for someone else, usually where personal feelings are involved and both parties know each other. Such as.

Would a husband be disallowed from printing something for his wife? Would a boyfriend be barred from printing a rose model for his girlfriend?

Can a parent not print things for their child? How does that even work? If it’s by blood relation, then why can’t a grandparent print something for their grand child? If it’s about living in the same household, then why would a grandparent that lives in the same house as their grand children be allowed, but not one that lives down the street…? Is that fair? If it is about living in the same house, then can I print things for my roommate? Or is that not allowed?

If a parent prints something for their child, and it’s based on the transfer of ownership, maybe we can argue that the child is just barrowing it from the parent, but what if the child moves out and takes the 3d printed toy with them, would that then violate the license? Who would be at fault? Would the child not be allowed to take it because of this disallowance of the transfer of ownership of the 3d printed object?

Seriously. You act like someone is taking something from you, like somehow you’re losing something. We’re talking about objects provided on Makerworld for free though, to which others download and print it, hopefully in the thousands. Yet the line gets crossed for you if someone prints something for another? And we’re not talking about in a commercial setting or with commercial interest or intent, to be completely and utterly clear. This whole conversation is based around the original idea of a grandparent wanting to print something for their grandchildren. This isn’t something done for commercial gain, but because one human loves another.

I mean you made it clear that if I printed something of yours and gave it to my sister, that you’d consider that a breach of license. If that’s a breach of license, then it’d be just as much a breach for a parent to give something to their child, or a boyfriend to print something for their girlfriend.

Personally, it makes me smile when someone talks about printing one of my models for their friends or family. They aren’t doing it for commercial gain or interest, and so I don’t see how it harms me or should cause me grief. I already provide my files for free on Makerworld. That does not allow them to use my models commercially, but otherwise if every member of a family or house hold can download the model for free without issue anyway, I don’t see why it’s an issue that grandpa is the one that prints it.

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What I don’t want is you giving away my rights. You choose your licensing terms, don’t I get to choose mine? Again, this statement is what I objected to:

And this distinction does not exist in the SDFL, a point you continue to try to obfuscate by constructing more and more elaborate straw men. If you want to interpret the SDFL (as a creator) to mean that you can give models to close family, maybe extended family, maybe everyone in your church, you know that is fine and you can do that. Whatever.

I objected to you telling other people my licensing terms are different than the ones written in clear, unambiguous language in the SDFL. They aren’t.

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Dude, we’re talking about a grandparent that wants to print something for their grandchild.

You’re saying the license disallows that, correct?

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You are free to give anything you print to your grandchildren regardless of the license. You don’t need to reach out as there is absolutely nothing anyone could ever do to limit your ability to give a gift to your grandchild(ren).

Doing so on a larger scale such as “visitors at church” though would be approaching levels that could potentially cause you issues.

However as for the eventually selling part, you cannot legally sell any models without commercial rights, period.

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OMG read all conversation. I’ll give my 5 cents. Some truth from both sides (Josh and Mugglesmuggle). From one side of point of course, License is exactly what it says. But cases when You are printing for kids, parents, grandkids or close friends are very different. Especially when we are talking about phisical 3D printed items. In my opinion Josh very well explained why it is not working in those cases. I’d say printing stuff for close people can’t be determined as a transfer. Because mugglesmuggle you are saying right, no one should give away your rights, but who are you to determine granpa’s rights how he owns his hardware. I mean who are you or anyone else to say that printer he own can be touched only by him and why he can’t say this is OUR printer not exclusively MINE. Why this printer can only print exclusively stuff for my personal use and I’m not allowed to give permission my wife/kids and even close friends to use it. So stupid thing in all that is the fact that You can of course try to make complaints about all this, but how can you now, who exactly did print that item out, who hot that SEND TO PRINTER button or you really want everyone to make a video evidence of downloading and printing your stuff under this license? Think about other side of Grandpa printing stuff to their grandkids or other relatives. You won’t loose anything in this case, but You can increase a popularity of your Items (if they are nice and worth it) through social media. Those people (at least some of them) will show some pics of them and that’s how many people can get now about them and you will get a bigger auditory of your stuff.

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Thanks!

He absolutely did. Here’s the problem, he doesn’t get to decide what licensing terms mean for OTHER creators, he only gets to decide for himself. His argument is basically “the SDFL is stupid, therefore it is OK for you to break it”. Instead of inciting people to steal, the solution is for him to make a new license that has the terms he wants. Creators who selected the SDFL (and we have a choice of which license we select) have every reasonable expectation that the SDFL simply means what it says.

Josh also makes this argument. And I agree. But here’s the thing, I don’t get to agree on other creators’ behalf just because I think their viewpoint is shortsighted and self-defeating.

Creators can license things how they want. Sometime they will make bad choices. But just because I think “man, they are being stupid” it is improper for me to either individually violate that “stupid” license or worse, incite others to do so in a public forum. It’s just not my call, if a creator spends time and effort creating, their creation is theirs, I don’t get to decide for them how to license it.

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No it wasn’t. :roll_eyes:

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Hi Herb, welcome to the forum!

Instead of answering your question precisely, I’m going to answer every question of the form “License Y says I can’t do X. But I really want to do X. What do I do?” so that the answer can be repurposed for anyone who has a similar question.

What is a license?

A license is permission to do something you otherwise wouldn’t be able to do. In 3D printing, a license is the set of rules an intellectual property owner sets as conditions to use their property (their design). When you download an STL file, the design still belongs to the creator; they’re just letting you use it under certain conditions. Those conditions are the license. To use their design, you voluntarily agree to abide by the license. It’s entirely your choice; no one is holding a gun to your head saying “accept this license or else.” If you don’t agree to the license you can always just not download it. The fact that you are voluntarily accepting the terms of the license as the conditions for use is important. You are making a promise, an agreement, a contract with full knowledge of all of the conditions of use.

On Makerworld, the creator can choose from several licenses or they can choose to put it in the public domain. This is important: it’s the creator who chooses the license under which they allow you to use their property, not Makerworld. They were offered a list, they looked through them, and they said “THIS ONE! These are terms I’m willing to offer my design under!”

Since it was the creator who chose exactly that license, what is the most obvious answer? If the license says “don’t do X” just don’t do it!

“But I really want to do X!”

OK, let me start with what not to do:

Asking Makerworld support, other users, or other creators for their opinion. They can’t give you permission to use someone else’s property. They cannot “interpret” a license for you or answer your question about what is or isn’t allowed. They can’t “vote” on whether the terms of the license can be broken. Even if 100% of them say “Awww, it’s OK to do that, everyone does,” or “No creator I know would object to you doing that,” that is not sufficient. You can’t “vote” someone else’s property away from them.

What you can do:

Send the creator a note asking, “Can I do X?” If they say yes, you now have a personal license to do X! Yay!

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