New kind of fraud, stolen models in print profiles

[Mici]

Let’s assume the following situation:

• A copycat finds a model on MW, that is also somewhere else, let’s say Printables.com

• On Printables is also a remix for that model that is unknown on MW. The model on a nice and well designed kit card.

• The copycat uploads this kit card as his own original remix for the model on MW.

• Someone comes along who knows the original and reports it. MW removes it.

• About two weeks later, the same stolen kit card is uploaded by the same copycat, but this time as a print profile. That’s smart.

• Months go by, nobody notices because it is so well hidden in between of all the fancy named profiles. The profile has currently 1.7k downloads.

• Others see it, do the same with the same kit card on the same model. Everyone starts small, 210 downloads

• Another one tops it all. He adds additional accessories from other designers to his print profile, then a bit of clickbait in the name → voila, 2.8k downloads

They are riding the wave of success of the model while disregarding all the rules.

I have already reported this to MW and am curious to see their response.

See MW’s reponse and more details here: New kind of fraud, stolen models in print profiles - #15 by Mici.

TL;DR
Dear MW,
You need models with print profiles for your concept to work and that’s why you reward them. We all understand that already. Make profiles mandatory for new models, that’s it.

Prohibit everyone except the designer from uploading profiles, as requested so often by the community.

They are often uploaded by people who have less skills in 3D printing and are just greedy of points or recognition anyway.

It’s not the designer’s job to review other’s uploaded profiles and those comments for quality or content just to prevent the model from being bad-mouthed.

Only the designers know how the models should be printed and if they do a bad job, they’re punished with a bad rating. If they do a good job, they’re rewarded. It couldn’t be fairer.

Save yourself the effort, save our nerves and finally change this rules. Please!

[ProtoSpyre]

I understand the severity of your concerns… I empathize with you. Unfortunately I’m seeing a huge disregard towards the rules but I understand there’s a lack of staffing.

Just the other day I had to report a model that BL official IG page featured a stolen model directly from STLFLIX… Literally copy and pasted their description into MW and used the photos…

I’ve tried suggesting to them that it’ll be best served amongst the community to just have some of us moderate MW. The relief we could add to their work would improve the experience vastly! Plus they wouldn’t have to hire anyone… It would be easier to monitor us doing that than obviously monitoring the whole user base they can’t seem to do 100% of time.

MW needs to restructure the reward system completely because it’s all about the $40 gift card… literally.

[Mici]

100% agree and I understand MW, no question about it.

I have also done my best to support over the last few months and invested hours each time to report stolen models or to contact the original designers.
Otherwise I wouldn’t have been able to uncover this case because I had already reported these people several times. But they were never banned and they carry on happily.

At the end of the day, we deliver the content and not fix the system. Even though the rules were well-intentioned, the result is catastrophic.

When fraudsters haved move on, they will have destroyed the reward system so much that no one else will have any joy with it anymore.

So it’s now or never.

[zizzo81]

That could be easy a checkbox when uploading a model “allow others to add print profiles”.

[Mici]

I’m not sure. That would just push the scammers to the models with enabled profile upload. In my opinion there is no need for a workaround for another workaround, let’s do it right once.

There are more advantages when only the designer is allowed to upload any profiles.

Just think about it when you update your model, but the uploaders do not update their profiles.

Or when I look at one of my models:

• there is an uploaded profile with 3.5* rating (not fair rated though)
• 5* rating for the model
• Still no BL-compatible profile of mine for reasons

Now please enlight me, how is this model?

You are overwhelmed by comments and rating stars, that have nothing to do with you and the model, but with one of those profiles that are mostly named the same in the meantime (layer height, wall count, infill).

What remains is the visual impression of the rating stars.

If the designer is the only one who is allowed to upload profiles, he would be responsible for everything. If there is 1* rating, then I’ve screwed it up myself and can react and do not have to wait for someone else to adjust his uploaded profile or to respond to the user.

In addition, it makes it much easier for the user to assess the quality of the model.

On printables You only see “196 likes, 592 downloads, 5* rating”.
So everyone knows at first glance what quality they can expect, I am the only one who uploads anything and no one can ride my wave. So simple that it almost hurts, isn’t it?

[zizzo81]

There should also be the possibility for the original author to istantly remove a printing profile published by a third party. Easy.

[Mici]

Since I apparently misunderstood all the rules, I am out of this.

I thought I had found proof of a scam, but at the end I was entirely wrong, as you can see in MW’s response.

There are no scammers, they all stick to the rules.

In other words:

There’s no turd around, just chocolate that smells strange.

I would like to apologize to everyone. I am ashamed. I have marked the important part for this topic.

Hi Mici,

Thank you for your time and patience.

Upon review, we have not identified any violations of our community guidelines associated with the mentioned print profiles. Therefore, we regret to inform you that we are unable to remove them at this time. We apologize for any unpleasant user experience you may have had. Please allow us to explain further.

In accordance with our community guidelines, we do not allow the repeated uploading of the same models. Moreover, it is essential that models adhere to the original model’s license. However, the rules are different for print profiles.

We highly value your feedback and suggestions. Please be assured that we will thoroughly examine this issue and work towards enhancing our future guidelines.

We appreciate your contributions to the community and your dedication to upholding the community order. Should you have any further concerns or if there are specific aspects you would like us to reassess, please do not hesitate to reach out.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Best regards,

MakerWorld

No need to thank for, really.

If you feel like missing some sarcasm tags, here are some. Use them as you wish.

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[Henlor]

@Mici

About two weeks later, the same stolen kit card is uploaded by the same copycat, but this time as a print profile. That’s smart.

I think your are in the right dude don’t apologise for it.

If I have well understood the situation. Someone posted a remixe (made by someone else on printables) as a print profiles on the original model of which the remixe was based on?
If the model present inside the print profile differs from the model uploaded by the designer. It’s infringing the licencing of the remixes if this one is not licensed under public domain.

[Henlor]

Do you have the link of the profile you’re talking about?
And the links from the original sources from printables.

Maybe MW give you this answer because they didn’t fully understood the situation.

[Henlor]

See. If the print profile contains another model (in part or in full) you can report it. And a remixe is another model. They don’t necessarily share the exact same licensing and most of the time, one of the requirements is to give attribution to the designer.

[Mici]

Thanks for your participation, even though you seem to have overlooked my sarcasm tags

You got the core, but in sum there were much more.

They have the screenshots of the successful complaint, the dates, the links to all models and profiles and the note about disregarding MW rules and licenses.

One of the guys is currently being promoted for his hard work (imagine many sarcasm tags) on the MW featured collection.

That’s why he came to my attention, as I had already reported him several times and saw the case on second sight.

I don’t want to start a public shaming, otherwise I would have uploaded all the links and screenshots and not described it.

So let’s swallow this with a big gulp of WTF? and live our lives.

…Moreover, it is essential that models adhere to the original model’s license. However, the rules are different for print profiles.

I spend too much time on problems that are not mine anyway and MW has already decided - lesson learned.

[Henlor]

@Mici

you seem to have overlooked my sarcasm tags

Indeed ^^

@Mici

I don’t want to start a public shaming, otherwise I would have uploaded all the links and screenshots and not described it.

It’s not a question to public shambling anyone. But if you’re right, this behaviour must be report. Plain and simple.
And it will be harder for MW to ignore multiple reports.

[Mici]

You could be right.
I will calm down and present the specific cases more clearly tomorrow. Otherwise I’ll mix this case up even more with other cases I’ve also discovered and reported and then nobody would understand anything

[Display_Name]

This is becoming popular with a bunch of “fakers” making good numbers with schemes like the above and licence dodging. Reporting these gets tedious as MW believes time-heals-all-wrongs and the people are printing this so it can’t be bad. Once the horse has bolted they don’t bother closing the gate, most of the time the numbers are on the board remain and all cards have been cashed out.

My unpopular opinion would be to make a sliding scale of points where original works get top tier, remixes get half, uploads with no proven prints and public domain are void.

[Mici]

Here is the evidence:

This is the original model on Printables:
https://www.printables.com/de/model/622290-dummy-13-beta-on-runners-easier-to-print

A remix of DUMMY13 on Printables:
https://www.printables.com/de/model/593185-dummy-13-printable-jointed-figure-beta-files

The user “phaizzle1” had uploaded it as two different models. One of them was just scaled, if I remember correctly. He had many uploads already. MW removed them.

As DUMMY13 is also on MW, he has uploaded it again as a print profile

Here is DUMMY 13 on MW
https://makerworld.com/en/models/183780

You can also find the same, done by another guy (DrBlade):

So “phaizzle1” knows what he does, MW knows that this is wrong, but does not remove such profiles or kick his account, as you can see in their response.

Now the other guy “langa__” . He adds his remixed models as a profile to DUMMY 13, so anyone praise him for his work, while no one knows the original he has used.

Both have a wing he has “remixed?” No, that’s a share again, dear MW.

Description

Changed the size a bit…

He has also changed the license to standard digital license on his own initiative.
The original is this:
https://www.printables.com/de/model/704430-dummy-13-angle-wings-by-neoteclabs-and-jeffrey-yan/files

So both profiles do not match to the DUMMY13 model on MW.

Disregarding the license, calling shares as remixes, not matching profiles. Three broken rules of MW.

However, MW just accepted another report after 8 days of consideration and deleted the second one that was also uploaded as a model (huge amount of downloads) and thus from the MW’s featured collection “DUMMY 13” too. Reason: It is a share.

Yes, THIS GUY is being promoted by MW because he uploades a share of a model that is not only already on MW, but is even in the same featured collection.
And he is still advertised with another of his “questionable remixes”.

He also uses BL’s model, changes the license, not marked as remix.
Reported, it’s still there, that’s funny.

The deeper you dig, the more garbage you’ll find, so please bear with me if it looks a bit messy.

[GenericUser]

Quite a bit of Sherlock work there, it’s sad when MW ignore the blatant scheming that goes on now. As I’ve mentioned in another post, they need to stop rewarding “remix” and moderate better. They team up and do this openly, harvesting copyright on other pages and the other then pointing to the dodgy relicensed (public domain, etc) on MW. It’d whither away if the point rewards weren’t there, they aren’t doing this to be popular.

[Mici]

@GenericUser

Quite a bit of Sherlock work there…

Maybe a tiny one

@GenericUser

they need to stop rewarding “remix”

I’m not going to start a discussion about “crappy originals” vs “worthy remixes” because that’s not helpful.

Many models I have reported have been uploaded as supposed originals. So it’s irrelevant, they’ll just call it the way it gets points.

What matters is how scammer should be penalized and how the rules are enforced. You can cheat as often as you want, your are safe. Just don’t upload the same deleted model over and over again, that’s all.

• MW has to get the points back. If they are already redeemed, then they should give them minus points that they have to earn back, or block the gift cards.

• MW could kick all their serial numbers out of the cloud for a reasonable amount of time, since the accounts are paired to at least one serial number and most of these guys are lost without the cloud and that shiny BL APP.

• New nicknames wouldn’t help them either this way. And if someone buys a locked printer, they can complain to the fraudulent seller. Double shame for fraudsters.

Word just needs to get around once and I guarantee things get better from one day to another.
This is all a problem of MW’s own making, and not the first time that a brilliant idea from the marketing department has ruined a good product.

Printables has apparently recently started doing this.
This happened to me last week when I invoked copyright and they accidentally deleted my originals.
The download counts and points for the models were suddenly gone too.

I was able to sort it out and it was all back the next day, so I have less worries about mistakes that can happen.

[GenericUser]

I support appropriate punishment like you, it’s deflating to see they usually carry on after getting the slap on the wrist takedown. Usually levelled up and hefty numbers on their Bio, there is no deterrence and it borders on acceptance by MW. They often let bigger makers with numbers slide for obvious reasons, it just snowballs and encourages more to do the same.

It wouldn’t take much effort to blacklist/shadowban known offenders, the data is available and its not rocketscience. End of the day, we are only a small group of enthusiasts who make noise about this where the greater population don’t give a rats where free stuff is coming from. Sad…

[Mici]

Done, please find the evidence below your post

[user_2145143564]

Wow! That is a lot of work to make things better. I never realized the problem was as widespread. I’ve always been grateful to find a model already created for what I need so I don’t have to try out my poor CAD skills to make something that barely fits the need, doesn’t look completely horrible, or require a lot of post processing to make it work. An example being the replacement keycaps for my keyboard.

I download models posted here, print out a test, see if they look and work. Should they turn out cruddy and there are more print profiles, I will switch and try another profile. If not. I will try to tweak and tune it to see if it is my filament, settings, build plate, the fifth Tuesday of the fourteenth month. I’ve wasted a lot of filament on highly-rated designs from many different sites and have great success with ones that were rated as total garbage. I’ve always considered that part of the nature of 3D printing. When I have the time, I will rate the models I find in MW and if they are excellent, I give them a bump.

I’ve never really paid much attention to there being people posting fake models or print profiles trying to game the MW system. It is the first site I’ve hit where I’ve paid much attention to there being an actionable reward point system. Hopefully as it matures, MW will work through all the various ways people are gaming the system and keep adjusting it so that it does what it seems the spirit of the reward system is meant to do.

At first glance, I thought this was going in an entirely different direction. Having gone to some comic conventions, where I asked what printers they were using to find that Bambu was among the most prevalent, which is why I got one to give me a large print area and speed versus my original printer. There were many vendors and it didn’t take long to see the same things, like Thor’s Hammer or Loki Helmets, that I could see were pulled right of MK that weren’t public use license. A few said they were their own work and one said they had paid the license, the rest said it was all public domain / free-to-use and sell licenses.

The reason I am mentioning it does come back around a bit to your post. I found some of the models they were printing, cut off all but sample to compare against, and it was obvious which models and print profiles they had used. Most I saw were the “remake” posts of licensed models reposed as remakes, seemingly to get around license issues. What I will say is that he remakes that were free to print and sell were likely some of the same fraudsters you are discussing gaming the system.

I know it doesn’t solve the challenges you are working to fix in MW with your post, but there are people who print those bogus print profiles, put the wear and tear on their printers, expend the filament, and find that they are actually junk when they don’t sell them or customers are bringing them back because they were a poor design that fell apart. Nothing like a vendor having to refund a fifty-dollar helmet because the print profile by a fraudster trying to game the MK system fell apart.

We can only hope those vendors, even those who do pay a license to make and sell, but who got one of the bad print profiles someone uploaded to game the MW rewards system, will drive your issue with their wallets.