P1P now enclosed, terrible overhangs (PLA)

Bambu Lab P1 Series Troubleshooting
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Hi there! I’ve had my P1P for about a week now and have loved it. Did an uncalibrated print out of the box and was blown away. Have spent the last week dialing in my settings (temp towers, K values, filament temps, etc) and everything working great.

That said, the printer is in my office with me and LOUD. So I printed a PETG enclosure that includes sound-dampening panels and an acrylic front door and top door. No problems there.

But now, when I print on my “old” (1 week heh) settings w/ the same PLA and no changes to Orca Slicer, my overhangs are absolute garbage. I assume this is because I now have everything enclosed and the temps are high and cooling is insufficient. However, looking at my filament fan speeds, they’re already at 100% so there’s not much more I can do.

My question is, now that I have a “faux P1S” do I need to change over to a P1S profile? Can I not print in PLA with the door and top closed anymore? Do I have to just live with this noise? My P1P doesn’t have an AUX part cooling fan…do I need to pick one of those up?

Here are some pics. From RIGHT to LEFT (sorry!), the original P1P non-enclosed temp tower, out-of-the box. Overhangs great! I settled on 220C print temp and 65C bed temp.

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Here is my temp tower last night with the top and front door closed, exact same settings. Pretty terrible. :frowning:

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Here’s the same settings, a few hours later, with the top and front door OPEN:

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The irony of you adding the enclosure is, nope, you are meant to leave the door or lid open as PLA doesn’t work well with a build-up of heat.

It requires the vent.

When printing PLA with the default Textured PEI Plate or High-Temperature PEI Plate, it is recommended to print with the front door open and/or the top cover removed to help keep the chamber temperature low, thus minimizing the chances of getting an extruder or hot end clog.

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There‘s a good page in the wiki about enclosing the P1P.

I have an enclosed P1P too and meanwhile I have installed all additional fans. Now I can use the P1S profiles or the P1P profiles if I remove the side panels and the door from my P1P „Vision“ enclosure. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Most of my previous printers were open.
The enclosed one I had came with TWO 120mm fans for the housing, one to get air in, the other to get the air out.

When I got my P1S and started reading I was stumped to see that I shall leave the door open and also remove the top cover when printing PLA and such.
You go for an enclosed printer to NOT have the issues an open printer has.
Sadly Bambu did not consider what that actually means :frowning:

You keep the thing closed when dealing with Nylon and such - only so that all grease runs off and your rods go bone dry very quickly.
Despite being closed we can’t reach an inside temp suitable for those real engineering plastics.
Yes, the X1 does have a chamber temp control but for the p! there is NOTHING, not even a cheap temp sensor we can use.
So the Bambu solution is to leave the door open whenever their fancy machines are unable to provide the required cooling…

I don’t know why but I expected that a machine, that costly and that hyped would do much better…
When I started with PLA I had the printer closed all the time and no problems at all.
Then I tried larger and more complex prints and found out that with the door closed all hell breaks loose.
My FLIR camera revealed the issues nicely - the entire build space was like an oven.
Not a big deal is those temps would be evenly spread…
I have not figured out yet which path the air takes to make it out of the rear fan but clearly it is NOT the hot air in the top region that is being sucked out.
The AUX fan, for me, is no more than a gimmick.
Go ahead and crank it up to see how far the airstream goes and you realise you would have to print right in front of it to have a benefit.
It is not as if the thing would blow cloud air either.
as a result the space above the build plate where the head moves goes hotter and hotter, no matter the fan settings.
You can’t cool parts by blowing hot air over them and you certainly can’t prevent heat creep in a tiny hotend if the cooling fan blows air at temps ABOVE the softening temp of the filament in use.

Funny thing is that WE SHOULD complain, that we should demand a change provided for free to fix this.
But not even in the EU the owners get a chance to do so.
Bambu made sure that we CAN print all sorts of filaments…
Bambu made sure that we CAN adjust the settings to our needs…
But they also made clear in their vital T’s & C’s that their MIGHT be limitations.
It is this MIGHT that breaks the deal as Bambu is well aware of the flaws they created and included in the P1 series…

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I would start there. The P1P profile has much less fan use because it is open. Now closed off, it needs the extra fan settings enabled. Personally, the conversion had NO degradation of print quality for me. But the machine is definitely louder because of the elevated fan use.

Personally, I never print PLA with the top off or the door open. The chamber fan is plenty to cool mine. TPU can sometime build up enough heat to start clogging so, I’m aware of it, but still print mostly closed up.

Also, the build plate you use makes a difference too. Some plates require more or less fan and bed temps. So be aware, things are changing a lot based on the physical configuration used. Make sure you’ve updated the “Accessories” setting in the printer’s menu to enable the “enclosure” setting on the physical printer. I’d imagine that may also enable or disable various things in the slicer or native functions of the printer.

Start with those and I think you’ll be back on track.

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That’s a lot of words to say you don’t know how an enclosure would affect printing variables.

Obviously chamber heat will be an issue for a filament with a low glass point. You want an enclosure to print tech filament but complain the enclosure keeps heat in which is needed to do so. You CAN have it both ways with a printer but you’re going to spend a lot more than the cost of a P1S.

I open my top to print PLA. This isn’t Bambu specific. It’s material specific. Other manufactures are recommending the same thing when printing PLA in an enclosure. Nothing new.

The aux fan is an auxillary fan. Meaning as an addition, not a sole part cooling solution. Even then, there are prints that do help spread the air. I personally have no real issue with it as it does it’s job, and adaquately.

Now I’ve only got 800 plus hours on my P1S (upgraded P1P). In that time I’ve never had heat creep, never had a clog that wasn’t my fault, only had a spaghetti incident once and a blob once. I print long PLA, PLA-CF, PETG, PTEG-CF, ABS, ABS-GF, ASA, TPU, and a little nylon. So I have a little experience.

A lot of what you’re complaining about can me mitigated by opening the printer on PLA. Seems you’d rather complain about it and, frankly you come off as entitled.

Are BL printers perfect? Nope. Will they print well with little input from the user? Yes. Very well actually.

I’m sorry if I come off rude, not really how I am. Just your rant struck a nerve, because I see no problem you can’t overcome and should have known would happen.

Hey, you’re allowed your opinion, you’re allowed to get a different printer and have at it, so have at it.

Peace.

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Thanks (nearly) everyone for their input. That’s pretty helpful to help align my expectations with what a P1P is capable of.

@MalcTheOracle I didn’t know that guidance, so seems that’s “expected behavior.” By that same token, looking online, it seems a number of people can print with everything closed w/ PLA and no issues. Probably an environment thing?

@print.in.3d could I ask you to provide a little more detail re: fans? Offhand, I believe I have 2 fans, first the part cooling fan on the hotend and then a chamber fan on the back. Other P1S and the X1C have a larger part cooling fan, do they not? Is that what you’re referring to? Would that help my situation, do you think. General consensus in my searching is that the add-on fan isn’t of much help and actually hinders PLA prints.

@just4memike thanks, Mike. I’ll try the P1S profile and maybe trying lowering my build plate temps. They’re a little high, but on the flip side I’ve not had an adhesion issue on any print so far. Overall, the P1P is an impressive beast!

@johnfcooley your response for a first time user, asking a pretty innocent question, is mind-blowing. I really won’t dignify your screed any further with a response and ask you to kindly go away. Peace.

So I’ll try updating the printer as with an enclosure, as per its settings, do some more test prints/towers and perhaps mess with the temps, and in Orca Slicer, try the P1S profile and see if that helps.

If all else fails, I guess I can run the P1P and print PLA open (and loud) or maybe move to PETG. PETG likes the heat!

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If you look I wasn’t replying to op. I figured that had been handled.

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As default, the P1P has only the part cooling fan (in the hotend).

In the linked wiki page the MC board fan is noted as a must, because in the enclosed printer “it is essential to install an MC fan to ensure proper cooling for the stepper drivers and board”.

The chamber fan is needed to get the heated air out of the enclosure. If it’s not there, you have to open door and optional the top cover.

The aux fan ist the big fan o the left side of the enclosure. It is used to get more cooling on the printing plate. P1S and X1 have all the fans installed by default.

To use the P1S profiles I recommend to install the fans too. This is, what I have done over the last months. The last fan I had installed was the chamber regulator fan. Now I have activated the “enclosure kit” in the printer config and so the P1P accepts P1P profiles and the P1S profiles too.

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@print.in.3d thank you for that wiki entry. Clearly all new information to me! Okay, so at this point I think I should have just bought a P1S after I do all these upgrades. :wink:

MC fan seems mandatory, as does the chamber regulator. I predominately plan to print in PLA (enclosed). Do you believe the aux part fan is necessary? That’s the one where searching online a number of people believe it causes warping. I guess it’s just a matter of dialing in the correct settings.

The MC fan seems easy (on/off) to keep the board cool. The chamber fan is used by the P1S so I presume the P1S profile has settings to adjust the chamber fan as needed.

You’ve been very helpful. Thank you!

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NP, On the build plate one, its not so much you should use lower build plate temps, just that you should know the build plates and machine profiles (P1P and P1S) will give you different settings that you may not notice being changed. So, just be aware of the interconnectivity of seemingly meaningless changes.

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Yes, that’s true. At the time I bought the P1P the P1S didn’t exist.

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Hello, I was wondering if there were any updates to the OP’s problem and if he resolved it as it sounds like OP printed the same enclosure I’ve been looking at due to the damn fan noise (I can hear it downstairs even though it’s in its own room with the door closed).

I’m aware of the issues with printing PLA in an enclosure so had the idea of cutting some holes in the roof so the hot air can escape and some in the side near the bottom so cooler air can replace it. Does anyone have any experience to say if this is sufficient or is it still not enough cooling?

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Hi there. I have received the 3 fans (MC board, chamber, AUX part) but haven’t installed them yet. That’s a process for this week.

My hope is that once I do, I can select a “P1S” profile and have similar open door PLA performance with everything closed up, hopefully w/ less noise.

Right now, my main concern is that adding 3 new fans is going to cause more noise than when I started. The irony: I may end up with a louder faux-P1S than had I just kept the P1P as it was, out-of-the-box. But at that point I guess I’ve gained the ability to print stuff like PLA-CF, or more reliable ABS.

Once I install the fans I’ll run some tests and a new temp tower w/ PLA and try to subjectively compare the noise vs previously. Probably won’t be for a week or so.

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Unfortunately, the new fans will make it louder. When I was enclosed without the fans it was great. As soon as I added the fans (per Bambu’s recommendation), it was noticeably louder. The mainboard fan is a non-issue, and the AUX fan is seldom turned up (over 50%) to be much of a problem, but the chamber fan is noticeable over 50%. Not terrible, but definitely louder.

Personally, I don’t have to open mine up to print PLA, and that is cool. But your results may vary.

Also note, PLA CF would be just fine on an open printer. The CF really helps to limit warping, and PLA doesn’t react well to high temps… so enclosing it isn’t going to help much for PLA. But you are very correct on the ASA/ABS and other filaments like PC, Nylons, and PPs. Overall, the printer becomes more complete and significantly more capable.

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Yes, the chamber fan particularly is very loud, louder than using a P1P without any enclosure. You can turn it down, but even then it still adds some noise.

If you want to keep the door closed and lid on while also minimizing the chances of heat creep, there are a few things you can do. You can print one of the many risers or lid props available, which can allow the hot air at the top of the chamber escape while still keeping the chamber mostly enclosed. You can use a cool plate, or the Darkmoon ICE plate, which have good adhesion at lower bed temps. You can simply lower the bed temp, as long as your plate is kept truly clean you’ll still get good adhesion. You can keep the ambient temperature of the room lower, as the lower the ambient temp the more efficient the heatbreak performance will be.

You can also try to avoid or minimize things that contribute to heat creep other than just chamber temperature. Heat creep occurs when the filament in the zone between the heatbreak and the extruder gears gets too hot and deforms enough that it can’t or won’t be pushed into the nozzle correctly. The lower the flow rate, the longer the filament spends in that zone, and the higher the chances it heats up enough to deform. That’s why heat creep is much more likely when using a 0.2mm nozzle or when ironing, and why it’s much more rare when using a larger nozzle. Frequent retractions can also contribute to heat creep. If you think about what’s happening during a retraction it makes sense, that filament in the zone I mentioned earlier is getting pushed forward, then yanked back suddenly, repeatedly. This can cause the filament to buckle or swell at lower temperatures than if the filament were only being pushed forward continuously. So prints with lots of small details that create frequent retractions can be problematic. The other aspect is simply time. The longer a print is, the more heat can slowly build up over time, and the more likely heat creep could set in. That’s why a lot of people experience heat creep on their first really large print.

I see a lot people claiming they’ve always printed PLA with the lid on and door closed, and I believe them, but I also doubt they’ve attempted a long very detailed model with a 0.2mm nozzle and ironing with PLA and a fully enclosed chamber.

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I’m a bit confused at your response to johnfcooley considering he wasn’t even responding to your question. He was responding to user_3026326371’s comment, and was 100% correct about what user_3026326371 said.

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Cross talk on a forum. I regret he thought I was replying to him, but I’m not offended. I’d react that way too if I thought it had been aimed at me. I’m sure he blocked me after. As long as his problem was solved it’s cool.

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