Can’t ever expect a business, which only exists to make money, of paying more consideration to individual consumers other than ensuring that the later keep returning and keep buying. Stratasys sits on its arse (patents) for the past 2 decades, yet haven’t bothered use those patents to bring innovation and creativity to the FDM market. Factually, all their acquisitions (as briefly pointed out above by davewm57) haven’t resulted in the development of innovative and better performing 3d printing machines. Actually , the exact opposite applies. They’ve patented a bunch of stuff only to make sure they’re getting a constant revenue flow from licensing and royalties, and have market control over its competitors, and BL with its very popular X1 series, especially with the X1E, has begun taking large steps into the industrial 3D printing (Stratasys’s bread and butter), and is menacing not just its existing market, but also it denies it quite a handsome amount of licenses fees and royalties (if we eere to believe its claims stated in the 2 lawsuits), without even considering the risk of losing its “leading” position on the FDM manufacturing market.
In the end, no business is interested in anything else but to generate profit and all that talk on "customers’ interest " is limited
to the minimum amount of research /development /support /spares, required to keep the customer wanting more and paying for more. Their interest is to make sure that the prices are affordable enough to sell to as many customers as possible.
You don’t get much consideration if caught with stolen property, either.
I need to add - I’m not saying Bambu stole anything. Just saying that with anything, if it isn’t someone’s to sell and you buy it, there can be issues that courts can decide. But not saying Bambu is wrong here. Need to clarify, I have no idea who is right or wrong in this.
LOL… that too could be viewed as “consideration” , but only for the purpose of fining you for (or charging with) acquiring stolen goods (or goods containing stolen items)… whether you were aware of the fact or not.
That’s true, but I’d be pretty offended if a court tried to argue that the thousands we spent on buying this stuff was somehow equivalent to an individual buying from a black market or whatever.
It’s highly unlikely that ordinary citizens would be forced to give up their property because of a patent infringement. Patent law typically targets manufacturers, sellers, and distributors rather than end-users or individual owners. In most cases, the legal focus is on stopping the production and sale of infringing products, not seizing them from consumers who purchased them in good faith.
Forcing ordinary owners to give up their property would not only be difficult to enforce but could also raise significant legal and constitutional challenges, particularly in terms of due process and property rights.
I believe the legal parlance was best summed up by a famous actor who, on the topic, said, “From my cold, dead hands,” as he brandished a replica of a US Colonial flintlock long rifle.
Or as his modern day counterpart Captain Extruder.
of course, if bbl thought staticsick had worthwhile business customers, then bbl could buy them. But, US gov would ban the sale, I guess. The point is that new, agile companies, like bbl, could leave them in the dust.
What would happen if bbl completely ignored the lawsuits? bbl imports to usa are banned? Users complain. cccp retaliate? Everyone complains.
BL can’t afford to ignore the lawsuits, nor to give up the US market, although, should Stratasys (or as you refer to it: “staticsick” - funny choice of name-) obtain from the judge an injunction against BL, or should win one of the lawsuits , BL would be “banned” from selling its printers in the US. That’s something that BL can’t accept or afford, although it could continue to operate/sell everywhere else… but losing the access to the US would definitely have a significant negative impact and economic implications for BL in general.
Given that almost every 3D printer manufacturer out there is practically infringing on one or several of the Stratasys’ patents, the choice to go after BL, right after BL has begun to seriously menace Stratasys’ “leadership” position and market share on the industrial 3D printing market, especially with the X1C/E series, and considering Stratasys’ previous similar IPR litigations and results of those litigations with similar companies like BL (see top of the thread for more details), it’s clear (at least that’s how I see it) that Stratasys wants to send a strong signal to all these “players”, to get back in line, play nice and pay the licensing fees and royalties they claim, but also to not dare cross into Stratasys’ area of “bread and butter”, the industrial 3d printing market.
I might be wrong, but as I see it, all the signs point that way.
Obviously, Stratasys is completly worthless innovation and creative wise, and I believe no one else but Stratasys dares denying it.
Everything that Stratasys has ever “touched” ( through M&A, or simply through hostile takeovers, like they most likely are trying to do to BL) has made those acquired companies worthless organizations, and all (or most of) those companies’ best and brightest engineers had to leave.
Stratasys (and there are plenty more like it, not only in the US) is nothing more than a dying dinosaur on the extinction path…The thing is that this dinosaur has managed to secure (through the IPR and the industrial market sales) life-saving IVs (through licensing and royalties), that, unfortunately for all of us, keeps it alive and extends it worthless life span…
I’ve no idea of market shares, 'twixt bbl and stratasys, in the USA or elsewhere. But there are dozens of ways the lawsuit can be made redundant, with innovation, etc. And, if the lawsuit takes a number of years to go to court, it will all have moved on by then, and bbl can create a number of companies with different names, and tie up stratatsys with writing suits. Whatever happens, companies like stratasys have numbered days. fdm printing, in some ways, is pretty much a rubbish way of creating stuff, maybe in ten years time it will be no more…
I expect there is a bigger demand for industrial printers in Asia, than in the USA. Guess who will be making them. But, it’s all a bit like selling pencil sharpeners, when you need to be selling pencils. Where in the world is stuff being made these days?
Nowadays, electronic and other development moves far faster than when the patent concept came into being. It is a poor system, but probably still necessary where competition, not cooperation, is the norm.
Seems like we only just recently arrived at the point where it wasn’t such rubbish.
What would be replacing it?
If I knew, would I tell y’all?
But, fundamentally, it is silly to have a 3d shape, divide it into layers, then divide the layers into paths and then lay down plastic filament along those paths in the hope of generating a representation of the original object. Never mind the physical limitations of squirting molten plastic where it needs to be, but all the mathematical compromises in calculating the paths, supports, temperatures, speed, cooling, flow rate etc. All of it happening in an uncontrolled environment, in many cases.
But as bad as all that sounds, you should see all the very useful stuff I’ve created using such a non-ideal technique.
And a lot of it is stuff that isn’t commercially available and would cost way more to have machined or worse - injection molded. I used to only be able to print PLA and would need to occasionally print replacements, but I’ve got netting clips to keep the birds out of my solar panels printing in PETG-HF right now. And this should be a much more permanent solution.
So flawed and imperfect but it’s really a huge advantage and benefit just as it is at least to me.
Any type of manufacturing process has its own set of advantages and limitations.
IMO, FDM is particularly well suited for domestic applications. The print process is relatively easy, there is no real need for postprocessing. And FDM printers are relatively simple machines to produce, thus they can be cheap.
But the other hand, I don’t see a bright futur for FDM printers in industrial applications. FDM is slow and lacks of resolution compared to other industrial 3d printing processes like SLS or PolyJet to name a few.
Yeah. Mines too…
Since I’ve got my X1C, I’ve printed quite a few useful things, with various types of filament, for the kitchen, bathroom, office, for personal use and entire family use, for my car and garage… even made things for a couple of neighbors (you know, keeping up the good neighborly relations ).
One might argue that all those things could be easy bought from shops. Very likely so, but only to a certain extent. Fact is that more often than not, it’s pretty damn hard to find those items in the size, color and shape that you want. Instead of searching online or in shops for something special, I’ve simply made and printed unique and personalized xmas gifts that cannot be found anywhere else, not even on e-commerce platforms, let alone in regular shops.
It’s also very satisfying to be able to make things whenever you want or need. From small home appliances to larger household things, from a simple print-in-place to assembling a large and complex project made from multiple bits and parts, all these bring joy and satisfaction to both the maker and to those to whom those prints go to.
Perhaps in the near future FDM printing will be deemed obsolete, especially in the field of the industrial 3D printing, although, in my experience, most if not all industrial prototypes are first test-run through FDM printers. In ehat regards the hobbyists and home users (without forgetting the freelancers, the start-ups and the SMEs), I think the desktop FDM 3d printers will continue to be the best choice from the running costs and maintenance perspective as well as from the cost-benefit ratio.
Oh I had hoped Chicken Little had made it home safely.
Guess not.
I could imagine the price of non-toxic multi-color resin printing coming down over the next 10 years to something that’s affordable for home users. I can even point to a possible forerunner of that:
For some people I can even imagine that, if the pricing barrier were swept aside, it might be their first choice.
I’m doubtful that it would completely knock out all FDM printers, though, because there are a lot of different plastic types possible with FDM to meet different needs for high-temperature, bouncy, strength, stiffness, etc, and it remains to be seen if resin printing could be advanced enough over the next 10 years to do equally as much. For instance, I haven’t seen any glass fiber or carbon fiber resin printers yet, but then again, I haven’t tried looking for that yet either. Maybe it’s already happening.
Anyway, 10 years is a long time. A lot can happen in 10 years.
I had a resin. Sold it to buy an FDM.
Clean up, and the need for ppe, maybe I’d go again. The detail with resin is insane. Resin can eat up space like crazy. The foot print of my Saturn S with washing, curing, took up more space than the bedslinger I ended up with.
You’re right, it’s cheaper now than it was when I started, and the future looks bright.
I only have room for one printer.
That’s not exactly what I meant (although I wouldn’t put it past the people involved to try to force a firmware update that bricks or cripples printers), what I’m getting at is that US customers will be harmed if BBL is barred from providing support in the US and/or selling parts to customers. Or maybe we want to buy an additional AMS, and we’ll be blocked from ever getting another.
Not sure if it’d go to that degree, but the phrase “from my cold dead hands” came to mind for me as well.
Surely you can get by without a guest bathroom? And does a walk-in closet really need to be limited to clothes?
Or the gas dryer… there’s always outside clothes lines. Just think, the laundry room already has external ventilation in place for a pointless tumble dryer. Just tell the wife you need to trash the dryer to help the environment…
Only one you say… My that sounds very familiar… Can’t remember exactly where I heard that before
Look at the bright side of the things: if banned in the US, you can always make a “short” trip over the border (both Mexico and Canada come to mind) and while doing some site seeing, purchase directly what you need and bring back to US with you…