Print falling, wrong support settings?

[Kaonashi]

Hi !
I’m a beginner at 3D printing with filament, I’ve printed a dozen of small objects and after reading about keeping your filament dry, I wanted to print a sillica box for my AMS.

Machine:
I own a X1C and an AMS, Bambulab X1C 0.4 Nozzle.

Filament:
Bambu PLA Matte

Here’s my issue
I downloaded this model from Printables, set system preset 0.12 fine @BBL X1C, ran the bed leveling like always, added a tree support on the one with a hole as the post mentioned, printed the three objets (woops) the result was one of them fell, the others were almost done but the last 10% failed.
I read about it and tried new settings but I’m not sure I understand everything I’m doing yet.

Goal:

• I am trying to understand if the raft was mandatory on this print or if my settings were totally off. If so, how do I know I will need rafts and how big ?

• I’m also trying to understand why would the back of the print ,facing the fan, would not print correctly while the “Makes & Comments” on that model seem to all be perfect prints. See last image for reference of the issue.

Settings i’ve modified and things I’ve tried:

• I printed only the model that fell, I put my printer on the floor, I was thinking that the vibration of the console it was on were bad for the print. I also added a small raft (2 layers, 4mm) and added glue on the plate → It ended up falling again but printed a little higher
  

  

• I cleaned the build plate with soap, added glue with glue stick again, created a bigger raft 6mm this time and the print finished this time. However the back of the model seems a little broken.
  

  

Here are my settings for my last attempt bellow:

Any tips are welcome ! Thanks in advance for your help !

[Olias]

Matte filament in my experience does not print well with models that have those kinds of details. Bambu Matte profiles are not very good. You would be better off calibrating the filament manually and seeing if you can produce different results. Or simply use regular PLA. Alternatively, you can simply try raising the temp by 5-10 degrees and seeing if that makes a difference.

[EnoTheThracian]

I actually have 6 of them in my AMS All from PETG (which has other problems from PLA).

I think @Olias point about PLA Matte is based on a wealth of knowledge so check if it needs to be PLA Matte or if PLA will do.

Secondly, you seem to be good on plate cleaning but you may further improve bed adhesion by a more refined use of glue. Either go for (expensive) liquid glue or try first to apply just a few lines of glue stick before using a moist cloth to evenly distribute a thin PVA glue film across the plate.

Thirdly, I am not sure if this the right model for a raft. Try a standard brim instead. Maybe decrease brim distance to 0 to be on the safe side.

Finally, the curling/drooping and stringing on the back: that indicates a lack of drying (yes, new filament can be positively soaked), calibration (did you use Auto-calibration on the filament? You did not mention that) and (if both are done), too high a speed (do you use slow down for overhangs?). Maybe you could also double retract distance in the filament overrides against stringing.
I’d usually also be proposing a lower layer height to improve overhangs, but you are already on fine, so not much more to be gained there.

Keeping my thumbs pressed and

[johnfcooley]

Everything that’s been said, but I’ll second slowing it down on that model. Matte doesn’t like all those quick small stops. I tried that model long ago and didn’t have much luck with it either. Prefered either vertical or horizontal slits. That diagonal needs slow.

[JayZay]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum,
Despite BL magic, whether you are experienced or not, failures will occur.
I congratulate you on your attitude in facing the problem by aiming to learn, plan, and test some hypotheses. That’s the spirit.

I printed the same model a time ago but cannot find the project file to confirm the used settings. I will search for it better and update the info if I see it.

@Kaonashi

I am trying to understand if the raft was mandatory on this print or if my settings were off. If so, how do I know I will need rafts and how big?

Your settings are not off; it should print quite well using the stock preset.

The need for rafts can be defined through a threshold, the ratio of print height over the base area upon which rafts are used. BL entail something similar (different threshold) that, in your case, wasn’t triggered.
In these cases, observation during the printing may be critical, and since you state the bed sheet is clean, you can look for unexpected events, such as the supports lighting from the bed or a bump into them.

Despite the BL X1C vibration compression feature, the correct approach is to set up the printer the best you can and, for the remaining, rely on the printer’s functions. If you are looking for a solution rather than the floor, check CNC Kitchen.

@Kaonashi

I’m also trying to understand why would the back of the print ,facing the fan, would not print correctly while the “Makes & Comments” on that model seem to all be perfect prints. See last image for reference of the issue.

Printables’ print feedback differs from MW. Not only is model and not preset evaluation, but users are printing with different filament materials and printers, and most have tuned their hardware and settings. Not a fair comparison. In your case.

Excessive or defective cooling can ruin a print, and local effects are at least a source of local artefacts. Typical swift solutions include reducing fan speed, replacing the print file, etc. Before any of these, did you calibrate the filament?

[Z3R0TRUST]

Hate to ask a rudimentary question, but I see you have Textured Build Plate selected in your settings. Does that match the actual plate you’re using?

Try creating your own print profile based off the PLA Matte one you are using, but up the nozzle temperature to 230 and the bed temperature to 60-65 C. Don’t skip the glue stick

[Rob2000000]

I have used textured PEI plates on several printers and have never needed any form of glue stick with PLA. When you get a new filament you should print a temp tower to determine best nozzle temperature - Bambu Studio does not seem to have temp towers - I use Cura with an appropriate printer profile and transfer the temp tower gcode to the printer.
I use an outer brim on smaller items - I only use rafts if there are a lot of fine supports needed.
Your problem looks a lot like an extrusion and or cooling issue - filament solidifying too quickly or slowly at the higher levels - you could play around with fan speed under the filament settings - change Auxilliary max fan speed.

[henry140]

how about a better matte profile? Anyone think they got one?

[Olias]

@Rob2000000

Bambu Studio does not seem to have temp towers - I use Cura with an appropriate printer profile and transfer the temp tower gcode to the printer.

It sounds like your missing out on the benefits of Orca. Orca is not only a clone of Bambu but has all the quality of life benefits that Bambu avoids because their too busy trying to upsell us into adding features that will force us to use maker world.

The features you are seeing are already baked into Orca.

Orca Slicer

Bambu Studio

[Rob2000000]

Thanks for the info , I do use Orca but did not realise it had the calibration towers - will probably use it more now

[Kaonashi]

Hey,

First of all, thank you for the replies, I wasn’t expecting that many feedback it’s really nice of y’all.

Info:

• I did calibrate the filament by ticking the “Flow Dynamics Calibration” before printing
• I do have “slow down for overhangs” ticked by default with the pre-set.
• The filament has been in the AMS for about two weeks and the humidity inside is at 20% (working on bettering that) but i did not dry it further.
• I am using a texture PEI Plate

@Olias
thanks for pointing that out, I did not know there were that much of a difference when printing PLA vs Matte PLA. I ran out of classic PLA so I’ll have to wait next week to run this test. I’ll try raising the temperature.

@EnoTheThracian
I happen to have some PVA glue at home so I will give it a try combined with the moist clothe.
I did not really get the difference between brim and raft to be honest, I did a few google searches to understand better, I’ll try the brim on the next print, thank you !
I’ll also try the double retract distance if all the previous advice do not work.

@johnfcooley
Alright I’ll try the 0.008mm High Quality preset, thank you !

@JayZay
I do not have a SD card setup yet, I should get one because I really do not see myself observing the print for 10h. I’ll take a look at CNC Kitchen I did not know about this brand, thanks for mentioning it. Noted for the print feedback from MW.

@Z3R0TRUST
Noted for the nozzle temperature.

@Rob2000000
I’ll look into temp towers I did not know about them so time to give Orca a try. I’ll start playing with the fan settings once I’ve done that.

My plan so far is to:

• Buy and try with regular PLA to understand the difference between the two materials better
• Use Orca to get a temperature tower, learn how to read it, I’ll then tweak the temperature accordingly
• Use a liquid glue and spread it with a wet clothe
• Use brims and try a first print with the 0.008mm High Quality pre-set
• Use brims and try higher nozzle temperature (+5°c) with the initial 0.12mm Fine pre-set
• Use brims and increase the fan speed to Auxilliary max fan speed

I’ll get back here with the progress made !

[Kaonashi]

First tests are out:
I printed a temperature tower with Orca slicer, best results seem to be between 225 and 235.

I printed the model again this time slowly with the 0.08mm High Quality pre-set of bambulab, added 8mm brim, bumped the temperature to 232°c, cleaned the plate beforehand and added liquid glue.
The print did not fall, but I’m not sure it’s better than the previous one, also the part which broke seems a little bit burnt (color was more brown than white) so it seems temp was too high I guess.

Third attempt on the left, fourth one on the right.

Next step I’ll try to print one closer and one further from the fan to understand its effect better, I’ll lower the temp a little as well. I’ve come to terms with the fact that this filament will be used to learn things.

[EnoTheThracian]

Try using adaptive layer height and slowing down to reduce heat input. Those are very long, thin and hot branches that need a lot of cooling without curling.

I used slowing down with PETG to good effect for those baskets. Usually PETG is much more challenging than PLA.

[Kaonashi]

Hey again,

I’ve tried a few things today, I cut the model in half to focus on the problematic part.
Try 1: The model was put close to the window of the printer, far from the fan, temperature 220°c, 0.08mm pre-set.
Try 2: This one was the same as above except I placed it close to the fan on the back of the plate. There’s already an improvement here
Try 3: This one was set close to the fan, temperature raised up 5°c, fan set to auxiliary part cooling fan set to 100% instead of 70%. There was one major quack bottom left, I cause the one top right when removing it
Try 4: Same as 3, plus I slowed down the speed of pretty much everything in Speed > Other Layers Speed by 20mm/s. It doesn’t seem to have made that much of a diff.

For now the right combo was temp up + auxiliary fan 100%.

@EnoTheThracian
I have not played with the adaptive layer height yet but it seems worth a try, thanks !

[EnoTheThracian]

Keeping my fingers crossed.

@Kaonashi

Speed > Other Layers Speed by 20mm/s

By or to 20mm/s? Going for example from 200mm/s to 180mm/s is not going to make much of a difference. You need to be much more decisive. Think 50% reduction upwards.
Also, with the many short paths it may be important to look at the acceleration settings. After all, a speed setting will not help if the path is to short for the print head to ever get to that speed. At 10,000mm/s², it’ll need 2mm to get to 200mm/s. Since it also needs to slow down again… I doubt it ever managed to get to the speed limit if you set it to 180mm/s on those tiny arms.
Again, be decisive. When I did my PETG prints, I reduced all speeds and accelerations down to 25% of defaults (2500mm/s² maximum acceleration, 50mm/s outer wall).
You may be able to get away with much more, but it’ll take a few trials to get the speed just right…

[johnfcooley]

Just for giggles hear me out. Change speed from normal to “quiet”. It’s quick and simple and will either confirm you need to drastically slow down or show that speed isn’t the whole issue.

I still feel like you need to pump the brakes.

[Kaonashi]

Well well well well well, here’s the 5th try, same as 4 but set Silent Mode, so if I understand correctly it has slowed down by 50% the slowest preset of bambulab studio.

I believe I can use the adaptative layer heigth on the whole model but that wasn’t useful to set it on that part.

Conclusion: A combo of adding brims for adherence, slowing down by a lot, more fan, little hotter temp did the trick.

Thanks again to all of you, I feel like I learned a lot, mostly on how to proceed on a failed attempt so that’ll be usefull since I’ll soon receive a PETG spool and I can’t wait to try it.
I’ll get back when I’ve done the bigger ones and the PLA one.

[Kaonashi]

For science: latest try on Anycubic basic PLA, Bambulab pre-set 0.12mm High Quality, 210°c as recommended by the brand, no slowing down or more fan or increasing temp, it was just printed in the back of the plate. We can see a few flaws but it’s alright compared to the PLA Mat versions of this with the same settings