OK thank you for the info. Sounds kind of right, as far as I can understand it. I just try to bring a different point of view into the topic as well.
When it comes to plastic, the first thing that always comes into my mind is chemical residues and when there’s China and Amazon goes along with… Than you get the answer no from me before I’ve even seen the prices at all. They even get the no from me just by china without amazon…and even better, the price here isn’t right either.
So same price always western production. And if it’s just a matter of insurance claims, which can also be claims on recourse from the next costumers… were you will by even willing to pay much more for 1 kg of filament.
By the way and just becouse it`s also noted here:
Non-destructive as well as destructiv testings are always snapshots. There is a Swiss German Sentence: “Wer viel misst misst mist.” Which means something like: Whoever measures a lot just measures the dung heap". You can twist and turn it however you want, it is and remains plastic, which can also have advantages… so the Kickstarter is really a toy for… well, I’m keeping remain quiet on this - Expensive snapshots which can then end completely differently…
That completely opposite results of what I’ve seen from other people using their filament in recent months. Maybe they have some quality control issues? I did see someone who said they tested the filament thickness and it varied by more than +/- 0.06mm or more through the entire spool, which seemed a bit higher than average. So the filament could be 1.69mm to 1.81mm.
The interesting thing is I’ve seen three different filament brands that use the same spools, have the same colors, and have the same company address in near Miami airport Medley, FL. Yet they are sold at three different prices. There was a fourth filament company also using the same address in Medley, FL, however, I haven’t seen their advertisements lately.
Yes!!! That was the company I couldn’t immediately remember out of Medley, FL. They are called IIID Max. I still have a few of their spools given to me, or should I say abandoned by, a friend.
Their quality control is truly rock-bottom. All the way from their filament and especially their spools. You can sort of tell when a company is truly an industry bottom-feeder when they are operating out of temporary quarters and even their logo is printed on an office inkjet printer. They didn’t even bother putting their phone number or website on their label. The whole experience felt like they were a company that was in the US Marshalls Witness Protection program.
The plastic of their spools was some kind of recycled material that had lots of voids in it. The two halves of the spools didn’t even want to stay together. I had to take screws and fasten the two halves. If it weren’t for the fact that these were free, if I had paid money for these, I would have been pissed. Surprisingly, some of their colors actually printed quite well while others did not.
I should also add that this is what Google Streets shows for a 2020 driveby. The key thing to note is that this would indicate that this operation has been in business at their location less than 3 years given that the name on the sign once Googled, shows that they moved out at some point after this photo was taken in 2020.
After more experience with even more filaments, I think it comes down to paying for a certain convenience. You know that if you buy Bambu Lab filament its going to work at a high speed with good results without tweaking when compared to random filament purchased elsewhere.
To get the same print speed and print quality results as the Bambu Lab filament, I’ve had to test several different brands and colors with the max flow rate test in Orca slicer, do several test prints, and create custom filament profiles for those filaments. Then remember to load that specific filament profile(and sometimes filament color profile) in the slicer when I use that filament. Also, with some filaments, I’ve run into the issue where certain colors will print faster with better quality than other colors.
Even though the Bambu lab filament profiles are conservative to ensure print quality, they are still “faster” than the generic filament profiles because those profiles are even more conservative to account for varying filament quality.
So now I have profiles for several different brands and materials of filament with some additional profiles for different colors that I have to remember to load ahead of time if I want the same print speed as just popping in a roll of Bambu Lab filament.
Not everyone want to go through that, so that’s why people will pay the higher prices for convenience.
Another reason is consistency. So far, the colors of Bambu Lab filaments have been consistent for me. Some other popular brands aren’t as consistent and when I’ve printed two parts of an item from filament on two different rolls that are the same color, the end result is that they aren’t the same color. I’ve had color inconsistency between two different rolls with Sunlu filament printed with the same exact settings for example.
If you aren’t concerned with print speed and don’t have major concerns about color consistency or don’t mind doing your own testing and custom profiles, then cheaper filament is an option.
We like certain Bambu Filaments, the big thing with how they operate and act as a company is sourcing out the work for a product they want (obviously) So unlike Prusament they’re not manufacturing or overseeing the process to our knowledge of what they sell.
R&D imo goes for a new type and does the process with the manufacturer to design and test it within Bambu’s printers. Depending on how they work, bambu chooses to go forward and start color options and optimizing characteristics of the filament. Its all done in china so the fact their neighbor (my speculation) is pretty much 90% of all filament manufacturers, they simply go to their facility and work with them on creating “Bambu Labs Filament” which is simply rebranded “SUNLU”
NOW I’m not stating ALL their filament is that way but you definitely see it when it comes to their standard options (PETG,PLA,TPU,ABS,ASA) As for their Silk, PC,Gradients,Metal and CF. I’m not quite sure who they have make it but they tend to be slightly higher quality given the price differences.
This is all speculation of mine. But its pretty obvious otherwise they would make note to all of us stating they manufacture their own filament. But they only say they “Create” so pretty much select options from their sources.
Once PLA Glow came out and they threw the work “Luminous Powder” and not being so abrasive, then Polymaker came out with the same product stating the same material used and is priced around the same but slightly higher. I found this sus because every other glow brand hasnt stated those words of using luminous power but using the harsh material instead…
All in all, we selectively pick and choose what Bambu Filaments to buy that we couldn’t get on amazon from a reliable company. I love the Metal PLA and there hasnt been color options like that on amazon that can match quality…
I’ve bought filament on Amazon for $11.99/kg, so it makes me wonder how cheap that filament was to manufacture and ship to the US and still turn a profit after Amazon takes their cut. At that price, I still get good results.
In the beginning I was purely BL, it was ok once you max out the member discount and start to grab the refills. I like the simplicity of not having to make adapter rings etc and the rfid was gimmicky enough to hook me into saving them up.
I’ve since gone back to Amazon as the price/delivery-time cannot be beat. The last few months has been zero BL orders and honestly not missing it at all. Particularly the recent stock issues. I’m a keen respooler on the Pasta and have a ready stock of genuine and reprinted empties to maintain troublefree printing. I don’t think there is anything that would win me back, it was good while it lasted. Last month I’ve come across a new local supplier (Melbourne Australia) and this guy is looking positive, I’m throwing business his way in the hope he can expand his product range.
I’d only recommend BL for the new printer shakedowns and those who are starting their 3d journey.
It’s the stocking issues that is what loses customers.
Think about how we all buy something, no matter what the product. Then one day, our store that we are so used to visiting, is out of stock. So one has to go on a scavenger hunt to find it. Then lo and behold, we stumble upon a new store that we previously had no reason to visit. Viola, that store has everything and then some. Now our buying patterns changed permanently.
Every time Bambu frustrates a customer, no matter what the reason. They’ve given them a reason to look elsewhere.
There’s a saying in the dry cleaning business that appropriate here. Customers in the dry cleaning business when they are unhappy; “I don’t complain, I don’t call, I don’t come back”. The point is that customers who complain are actually doing you a favor because they alert you to something you might be able to easily address. I guess in Bambu’s case, they seem to feel no need to apologize. Meanwhile, back at Amazon, another 100 spools get shipped to pissed off BL customers who just got fed up with poor shipping policies, high price, long lead times and just a general overall hassle.
BTW: For whatever reason, in my country neck of the woods, Amazon, now has next day delivery on most filaments if you order before 5PM. It just blows me away because I live in the sticks. I can’t even get the USPS to deliver to my street every day, yet Amazon trucks are driving all over my neighborhood. It’s sad because I would prefer to keep my business with a preferred vendor but BL makes that impossible to do and quite frankly, their attitude just exudes contempt for their customers. Even Amazon has a phone number where I can talk to someone.
I think Bambu has their own formulation made under contract at several other filament manufacturers. I’ve seen many people claim that Bambu filament is just rebranded Sunlu and rebranded eSun filaments. Some people even have shown pictures of both eSun and Sunlu shipped in boxes with the Bambu Labs logo and name on the shipping boxes.
However, when I do max flow rate tests, temperature towers, and test prints at high speeds, most of the Sunlu and eSun filaments just don’t compare to Bambu filament at high flow rates above 20mm^3/second. Some of the Bambu PLA filaments will consistently do 24.5 to 25.5mm^3/second on my pritner with amazingly good print quality results. I’ve found a few Sunlu filaments that perfom close to Bambu Labs filaments in flow fate tests(Sunlu high speed PLA and Sunlu Anti String PLA). However, some of those Sunlu filaments have a change in color or have a change in the finish(become glossy or more matte) at higher speed when the Bambu filaments don’t. Also, some of the Bambu silk and metal filament colors are so much better looking than some of the other popular brands when printed at higher speeds. I’ve tried some others that were recommended to me and not many of them can match the quality of the finish at higher print speeds and flow rates. That makes me think Bambu has their own special additive formula and better quality dyes and additives.
I don’t think Bambu has “all of their eggs in one basket” and has 2 or 3 different companies making their filaments under contract. Sunlu and eSun both do a large volume of production under contract for several well known companies. I’ve even purchased some other well known brands and opened the other brands fialment package to find a Sunlu spool with a Sunlu product number on the sticker. Supposedly an eSun employee at an industry trade show said they make filament for Bambu according to several 3D printing news sources. Polymaker is the largest filament manufacturer in the world now. I’m not sure if that is in volume of filament produced or sales volume in dollars. I wonder if they are also makign filament unedr contract for Bambu.
On a side note, I’ve been doing quite a few flow rate tests on my X1C with Orca slicer and recording the results. When I get more testing done, I’ll post the results online. Not everyone will get the exact same results with the same model of printer, same nozzle, and same filament. The results should be similar though. However, the results may be useful in choosing filament. Some of the PLA and ABS filaments that are under $17/kg have performance at high speeds that are close to Bambu Labs filament of the same type.
@Olias I’m very particular about loyalty and will tolerate a certain amount. Losing me won’t break them, but losing a few thousand of “me” may not be so pleasant. I love the product, its great quality, but they’ve got to keep up with whats going on in front of their eyes (not only stock issues).
We have a few Amazon warehouses here, they generally deliver next day or if you spend over $49 same day (if its stocked in the nearby depot). Free, fast, same quality, no-brainer.
I don’t know if you have the choice of Amazon Prime but our household has been a Prime customer for 10+ years. At first, I fought my wife on the issue then she showed me how much we spent on shipping. Prime is free shipping and 2 day delivery on most products.
What blows me away is when I order let’s say a handful of $5 products totally less than $20 and I receive them in 1-2 days, often in separate deliveries. How is that possible? I can only assume that is because their trucks are in the area no matter what, so what difference does it make if that add one more stop. I’ve even tried to aggregate my shipments so I get fewer boxes and that doesn’t work most of the time. So now, I just give up and if I realize I need something like an extra set of nippers for my PLA, I no longer put it on a shopping list, I just click “buy now” and it shows up in a day or two.
Aside from food and heavy items like sand/ice melt, I no longer go to big box stores. My local hardware store still gets my small hardware buys but they can’t compete on tools and odd items.
We have Prime here, it comes with the Streaming etc service included and is hard to beat. There is a filtered down range of their “homebrand” but 90% can order free delivery from here and overseas. Filament stock is never an issue, I even get great basic “creality”(spit) deals which amount to $20 spool.
Australian BL basic PLA/PETG/ABS is $42.99 without discounts, though they’ve only just dropping a few specials (pointless as theres 50% stock). I’m sorry I can’t see me coming back unless I’m spending the rare “giftcard” and thats usually on spares.
Not only would Bambu Lab have to pay up to 15%, the would also have to pick up shipping. Then if there was too much margin still in the sale, Amazon would then start selling Amazon Basic pulling pressure on your price even more. I think they call that a whore’s market.
Better to choose to stand above the rest and grab as big a piece of the pie as capitalism (or innovation) allows.
That’s an interesting theory except Amazon Basic filaments have never been competitive. It makes one wonder why they are still chasing the filament market. They don’t seem to be able to come in lower than $22/spool for PLA. This is one area of the market that defies Amazon and I find that most curious.
'Tis interesting. There are complaints here about price, delivery speed, and being out of stock when a user need a specific product.
If they went with Amazon, Bambu would have to lower their price, start paying for small order shipments, and be even crazy with out of stock issues. If they can not keep up with orders today, they could never keep up with stock selling on Amazon for less $.
Sellers should go to Amazon when they are seeking buyers that they can’t otherwise reach. Selling on Amazon offers no benefit fot Bambu and only emphasizes the issues that they struggle to deal with today.
Most people do not study the market as close as you do. The seen Amazon Basic as a trusted name, see the Overall Pick that Amazon puts there and their investigation is done. They want as little work as possible to make a ‘wise’ selection and they pull the trigger. Without realizing that there may be better for less. Why would Amazon want to be the lowest price? They run the numbers more than you do. The guy who sells the most for the cheapest price doesn not mean he is the smartest seller.
since they use multiple suppliers, im guessing the stock issue is bambus fault. They would supply amazon with bulk orders that they would keep in stock. You can buy a $1 item with free shipping. I doubt the seller is taking a loss. Somehow, so many other companies can swing it. Bambu would also not have to lower prices unless they chose. They already have to compete with amazon on price.
Seems legit, the Store is “Bambu Lab” on Australian Amazon page. They’ve got a very basic selection, only 12 filament items and 3 bits of hardware P1S/P1P/AMS. The prices are inflated around $10aud or so but does offer free one day delivery (even the printers huh?). Maybe they’re testing the waters? Not really price competitive but I’m guessing its gives you access to Amazon’s Policies (which are a win).
The guy who sells the most for the cheapest price doesn not mean he is the smartest seller.
