Questions regarding MakerWorld points

Popular models have done well and will continue to do well under the new system by getting the lion’s share of the boosts. I wouldn’t worry about them :).

Maybe there is an unrealistic expectation on what the new reward system can do. It can provide some more rewards for good niche models (the keyword being good, not any niche models), but it can’t give them the same level of rewards that popular models get.

The key to get high reward is to produce popular models. There is no substitute for good modeling skills and a good sense of what users want. We can all use more learning and growth on these two areas.

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It’s refreshing to see such a reasonable take on the situation.

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You are right, that’s how it works out here In the real world. If you sell a niche product you will have a lot less clients and profit, thats just how it works.

Mine are 40 bucks for 490 points. Am I getting ripped?

No, different currencies. Canada dollar != US dollar

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I just joined this forum to reply to this post.

First off I believe that Makerworld has one of the best model platforms as well as a very generous reward system. This has to stay.

Do you believe that under MakerWorld’s current point reward system, models that are more niche generally receive less popularity and thus less rewards?

Unfortunately I believe that is the case. Not only does it affect more niche models but the time to print and filament is also a factor.

Two solutions: 1. Modulate points based on time to print and filament use. Maybe double the points for larger or niche models.

Do you believe that more sophisticated and complexed models generally receive lesser rewards due to difficulty of printing?

Again, I found that my larger models get much less downloads than models than can be printed in 2 hrs or so. Best example have a look at the mouse competition. Some of the models that are quick to print have in excess of 1k downloads whereas the more complicated ones (ex vertical mouse and others) have a fraction of these downloads. I am considering designing some very basic models to get the points but don’t find much fun in doing this. It is frustrating to find some easy to design and quick to print model get a huge amount of downloads while the one you created gets much fewer ones. The effort vs reward equation is way off for this but still is much better than many other platforms.

In your opinion, do you believe that these phenomenon are quite common in MakerWorld and require actions to prevent them from happening?

Yes. I believe there should be a factor to help niche/longer print time models. Probably a mix of filament use (exclude support if needed) and print time would be useful guides and give a multiplier for downloads.

I have a number of ideas for more sophisticated models and they take longer to design but unfortunately reward is not that good.

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In the real world you get less sales but higher profits

That is not entirely accurate. The truth varies depending on the product category amongst other factors. For instance, smartphones designed with repairability and sustainability in mind, such as the Fairphone, are niche products. Despite this, they must compete with major manufacturers like Apple. In this case, Apple certainly has higher sales and larger profit margins compared to the niche Fairphone.

Maybe but from my experience the niche products need to have a higher profit per item as they lack the economies of scale and need this to cover overhead. Maybe the word “profit” is incorrect it should be “margins”. However, most niche products are priced higher/cost more than a normal product. Think about specialty clothing, niche market tools etc.

I think to increase the “possible” reward for niche models it will require semi paid models at some point. Like for example removing the expiration date of boosts and on the other side giving designers the option to request a certain amount of boosts for a model to unlock it. But I guess for such an option to work we would also need a way to purchase boosts through the shop or the app stores because some people might not want to wait for new “free” boosts.

The reason why I think so is that the models that get printed the most are the ones that limit the costs for this whole reward system or maybe even make it break even or profitable. They make people use their printer, buy accessories, recommend it to friends and buy more filament. I think it wouldn’t make sense for Bambu from an economic standpoint to pay out more for models that get rarely printed and result in less money coming back unless they’re part of the new BOM / Makers Supply program where revenue is generated that way.

Interesting perspective. The pattern I am seing is the more complex models and the niche models usually require much more time and filament to print. There is not much you can print in less than 2 hours that will stand out. The larger models will use printers longer and usually use up more filament. Also, if you want to create an ecosystem you don’t want it to be filled with fast to print very basic items as all the other sites already have plenty of these. For example look at the Beach competition and the plurality of towel holders. Do you want MakerWorld to have only that kind of models? I enjoy desiging more niche and complex models and realize that it seriously curtails the number of downloads and prints. This is a hobby for me and I tend to like the challenges of designing something new so it is not yet a dealbreaker. If I was into this to make money or cover my costs then it would be an issue.

Just trying to see it from both a company’s perspective and an average consumer’s viewpoint.

The goal with Bambu Printers seems to be reaching a broad audience, not just us nerdy hobbyists (meant in a good way—I call myself one) and designers who like complex stuff and dive deep into the hobby with all the research. From that perspective, simple and useful models are a “good” thing for people starting in this new world because then the average person feels like the investment in the printer was a good decision.

Imagine a teenager receiving the printer for their birthday. The first prints might be little things like keychains to hand out to friends and show off their cool new gadget. Or a middle-aged person who bought the printer, aiming to convince their spouse it was a good purchase. What are they likely to print? Short prints that they can finish while friends are visiting, showing how it works and handing over a final result / gift before they leave. Some home decorations to “justify” all the new filament deliveries stacking up in a corner of the house.

I think simple prints are the bread and butter for Bambu and the “big” audience they and their investors aim for. At least in the early stage of trying to get 3D printers into the hands of “consumers” and guiding them to have a good first experience with the product.

On the other hand, complex models, with a much higher risk of failure, supports to remove, and such, are probably something the “consumer” might be more hesitant about initially. Later on, when they have more print hours and have “learned” how everything works, they might become more curious and try more complex models.

At least with my models, I notice that the “mass” seems to prefer the easier, faster prints. Little gifts, household helpers, decorations and such. Prints with a low risk of failure, which can be printed within a maximum of 2-3 hours and don’t really need other tools. The more complex models are often something that many people add to their collection, but very few print because, at some point, they’ve collected so many “ideas” that they can’t keep up with printing or lose interest over time as they discover other new print objects.

For us, the more complex models might be more fun. Sometimes I even print “parts” of complex models just to see how the mechanics work and to get inspired for my own future ideas. But that’s mainly us nerds, I guess.

Of course, this is very subjective, and I guess there is also a “middle” ground for objects that might be complex, but where people instantly see a huge benefit in printing them. Once they start, they won’t stop—like some storage systems or such.

But I guess there will always be “niche” categories filled with very enthusiastic people. For example, all the people who like to build miniature worlds or railway models at 1:50 scale. For such people, a way to host paid models could be a win-win situation. They’ll never attract a big audience like “general” stuff, but such models can take a lot of time to create, and on the other side, the fans can be very enthusiastic and probably won’t mind paying a little extra to support the designer in that niche like many do already on platforms like Patreon or so.

On the other hand, do you want people to turn to other sources for these essential items? These items are considered basic because everyone needs and print them. BL aims to commoditize 3D printing, which perfectly aligns with printing these basic necessities.

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Hi Leif and Uhl,

I agree with both the points you make. I maybe am grouping niche and complex models together and maybe they should be treated separately. I noticed that the more complex models get much less downloads which makes sense based on what you are saying. Larger and more complex models require much more time. BL is helping in this with the contests as they will choose the more complex models. Just trying to see if there is a way for both complex and simple models to received an equivalent compensation for time invested. Maybe I should just do like most and focus on these simpler models!

I have something against this term “niche”. What is that? Does it mean models that don’t reach the general public? Or does it mean models that are designed for special applications, but which are or are not recognised by the general public?

Isn’t the term “niche” normally used when something is intended for a small sector? If you look at model railway accessories, that’s not a niche. 3D printers are just as much a niche product as model railways. Kitchen accessories, bathroom accessories, garden accessories and household decorations are not niche products. 3D models like Figuretten are usually niche models.

It seems to me that the term “niche” has been devalued for some time now. Whereby “niche” here apparently simply means that the download figures are not reached in order to appear in the top ranking?

What I mean with niche in this context is basically a pretty small sub group or something that targets another not too popular hobby so basically two not super popular hobbies come together which results in a small audience that searches for such things and prints them.

Take for example the fpv quadcopter hobby as another example that I’m currently doing a design for. I would consider that a pretty small niche hobby that not so many people do these days. From that already small group just a percentage has 3d printer which reduces the audience again. And then many parts for that hobby are printed in TPU which is something again that some people stay away from because it still has the image of being tough to print and sometimes is if they’ve not a modern printer like a Bambu and a dryer.

That’s a nice for me in this context where I would not expect high numbers of downloads / prints / points for and it wouldn’t make much sense for Bambu to push rewards for such a model financially in my opinion. To me that would be a classic example for something where extra boosts / tips / paid models make sense.

Another example could be if people would do replacement parts for very specific car models or Oldtimer. The audience looking for it would probably be super small, but for such people it might have a high value.

If I recall correctly, BL introduced the boosts partially as a replacement for the unlimited prints per model, in terms of rewards. However, that approach didn’t work out as intended. Based on the boosts I received, it seems to have had the opposite effect, with over 95% of my boosts being for simple models. The previous system of giving rewards per print was a good way to incentivize the creation of complex models, which BL confirmed was their intention. They could have chosen a better method to combat fraud, but here we are. I don’t think they will revert to the old reward scheme.

3D printing is an enthusiast-driven hobby, so the community isn’t heavily reliant on users creating things solely/primarily for rewards.

I was hopeful with the boost system. It is a good idea in theory. What I am noticing, and could be wrong, is that it is now used to farm boosts. The pattern I am noticing is that the winning combination is a model with a quick print time/low filament. Not sure this is what BL had in mind. The mouse competition is a good indication of this. If you look at the various models created and the downloads and boost something seems off. Some models are getting huge downloads and boost yet you wonder what is so special about them. Time to look for a print that takes 30 min or less and less than 20g of filament for the upcoming wedding contest…

The most boosted model in the mouse contest is the bat mobile mouse. Almost 8 hours to print. So not really.

And I think it’s not really possible to farm boosts since they are given by users if they like the model. And they are many factors that make a model popular or loved. But the print time is only one variable of this equation.

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That is not one of the models I had in mind but it is speculation on my part.

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