Sell me on a P1S (or the X1)

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21

I use X1C a lot and love it but , changed the nozzle of the Prusa Mk3S+ to Revo 6 high flow and for similar quality the speeds are very close, sometimes is actually faster small prints due to start up time.
Yes still X1C is a bit faster due to the acceleration, but not the print speed and that if you do not count the 10min to 7min start up time , But for real good quality X1C needs to be slowed down quite a bit
On top of that i gave up on using TPU/TPE in X1C especially real soft ones too much hustle and usually not great result . So TPU/TPE only use Prusa

Theoretically X1C can print up to 500mm/S practically most materials i print should be bellow 200mm/S and some material bellow 100mm/S , esun ASA max speed 145mm/S without satisfactory layer adhesion , ABS 140mm/S without satisfactory layer adhesion - actual ABS/ASA speeds is around 100mm/S on the X1C for good adhesion
PETG depends what outcome - shiny not shiny but anything above 150-170mm/S is not a good print and for shiny needs to be well bellow 100mm/S

Prusa with Revo Six has a quick change of the nozzles so for 0.6 0.8 much preferred compare to swapping the X1C nozzles
So no will not retire the Prusa any time soon , find it for some prints in PLA and PETG slightly better and TPU well still cant get the X1C good enough quality and on top of that had to modify(drill) the X1C head so be able to control the tensioner as if you printed something like TPU 70

X1C is a great printer but to say that Prusa is miles behind disagree , and yes Mk3s+ can print with in 20%-30% of the speed for similar quality( note Revo Six high flow version ) and depending on the model , MK4 sure that is more or less almost identical for the same quality
EDIT:
I did increase a bit( almost double) the acceleration and no print speed of the Prusa as well compare to the defaults :slight_smile:
EDIT 2: just had to run some parts in PLA and both Prusa mk3s and X1C a printing identical 36 parts nozzles 0.4mm and layer settings the same 16h15m on X1C , 19h05m Prusa mk3S+ Revo. Hope that clarifies , in PETG usually no difference or next to nothing

22

I mean the number of things (sometimes small) you do during or between prints.
One example is replacing the nozzle; while replacing the hotend in the X1C is simple, it is still more time-consuming than in the S1Pro. On the other hand, the calibration process is fully automatic, which is impressiveā€”the same for bed plates.
IĀ“ve macros for all this in Klipper that make the process easier, but in the X1C, there is a proper calibration and no need for coding. This type of thing consumes so much time, which I only noticed after having an X1C.

It depends. I primarily seek tight tolerance and accurate prints, so I prefer to reduce the outer wall speed and ensure outstanding results. The X1C is so fast that a minor reduction does affect my schedule, and I am not racing. In my experience, you can run the default settings (or even at higher speeds) with a properly calibrated filament without any significant issues.
Regarding aesthetics, precisely matte and glossy layers are expected but avoidable. Your speed settings are limited by the minimum layer time, so you start printing at lower speed in layers with smaller areas to ensure the minimum layer time. On the other hand, in layers with larger printing areas, the minimum layer time limit is not applicable so the slicer can set higher speeds. And so you get different layers of surface. You will find this issue with the famous ā€œspeedy benchyā€ and in other prints (usually small). It is generally easy to correct as the cause is identified. Also, it is pretty visible in the slicer preview, so you only advance if you want.
I got similar issues in other slicers, but usually, the consequences were layer skipping, bad surface quality, etcā€¦ sometimes it was easier to set a primitive shape at a certain distance to augment the layer time and solve it (personally never went by this solution, but it seems to work).

You are right. I thought twice before writing it, but finding the most suitable word was hard.
The X1C printer fails (e.g. I got a clog on the first day), and sometimes the solution will consume your time (I got a clog with 40% wood that I miraculously solved after more than 90 minutes and by pushing the filament temperature limits). But these are the exceptions; most of the time, the printing process is tedious. You send it to print and watch a complex print in complex material growing at unbelievable speed without any intervention. I have never experienced or read about something similar (maybe some YouTube videos, if you believe them).
This is achievable in other printers but at the expense of many hours, deep knowledge of the printing process, and your printer hardware and software. And possible tinkering.

Time will tell. I am also afraid I will find myself with 1.5kā‚¬ brick; I thought before acquiring it and still think about it. I took a risk, and I hope not to regret it. In the 20th we may have an idea of the BL printerā€™s future.

You can edit any filament settings, including BL, and save it as your preset. If one is unhappy with the available settings, it is possible to edit the filament starting g-code or add post-processing macros. Additionally, I started with their generic profiles (no calibration) and got pretty lovely prints.
But nothing compared to their default profiles for their filaments. I only have a tested BL PLA(sample), PLA-CF, ABS, PC, PET-CF and PAHT-CF, and it was clear that their filaments are optimised for high speed (melt dam well), and their presets are almost flawless, eliminating the typical issues (e.g. AMS feeding, strings, etc.).
I rely primarily on third-party filaments and expect to continue mainly because of cost. I only acquire BL filament in case of similar cost to market available ones or exotic specs.

I donā€™t aim to influence you to acquire one, to give you the rough facts about my experience so that you can take or not your risk. But if I were in your shoes, I would wait until the 20th to see what comes up.

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23

Faster isnā€™t always better - but with the bambu you have both

I have a small ebay business selling 3d printed parts, I made them all on a Creality printer until I finally decided to get a P1P (which Iā€™m in the process of upgrading to a P1S)

It is the absolute best of both worlds, insanely fast, especially for prototyping new designs. But if you want quality just slow the outer wall speeds down in the slicer and it blows every bed slinger Iā€™ve used out of the water on that too.

Iā€™d never go back. But then they have their place. If speed isnā€™t an issue and youā€™re just printing things for your own use then I guess a prusa/creality/etcā€¦ are fine to a point. But if producing prints for sale is your thing thereā€™s no argument.

Other than speed though - my P1P has never clogged, or failed a first layer, or had any issues at all - I just hit print and carry on doing my day job. The creality printer was like a full time job for maintenance and debugging issues with it.

24

This:

After 400+ hours Iā€™ve yet to have a totally failed print. The worst Iā€™ve had is a print where I placed a lid the wrong way onto the plate by mistake and the printer printed in mid-air resulting in a spaghetti ball. It detected it and stopped, I removed the mess and made it continue printing the other parts. In general, itā€™s just print-wait-retrieve.

25

Thatā€™s a fantastic markā€¦ I had a few failures along the way and some minor issues. I even started badly, as my first print, the speedy benchy, failed. I will likely be guilty if I assess the cause of most (if not all) problems. BTW what type of filaments do you use?

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26

So far Iā€™m mostly using Polylite ASA, Bambu and cheap Sunlu PETG, some Bambu PETG-CF, a little Bambu PLA, and then a bunch of Bambu and other -CF filaments. Iā€™ve had shitty prints due to insufficient filament drying, warping, etc and mistakes Iā€™ve made at the design level. Also a couple of failures due to the piece coming loose until I understood the fingerprint issues. But the printer has been doing just great.

The one sensor itā€™s really missing IMHO is a filament moisture sensor that raises a warning or stops the print if the filament is not dry enough. No idea how one would engineer thatā€¦ Ha, sounds like a feature request :nerd_face:

27

I just use HomeAssistant to monitor the Printer without the Bambu Cloud.

You will see every Temperature that the Printer is measuring and can take a look to the camera. As far as I know ist this just available on the X1C.

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28

That is pretty amazing. I had no idea. Is there a thread about this somewhere?

29

I just found it on GitHub.

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30

Bambu slicer is Prusa slicer but with added things for the Bambu.

31

Do you feel the need to do manual calibrations for every type filament? :man_shrugging:t2::person_facepalming:t2:

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I do. It doesnā€™t take long and I think itā€™s good practice. Unless itā€™s BL filament, then I use their settings.

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33

I do every color. Black runs different than white etc.

Last I heard, Bambu uses multiple suppliers, so I do bambu filament too. Its rarely correct. May aswell get everything as close to perfect as possible.

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34

For the comments above about surface finish on fast prints, as I understand it the cause is usually going to be temperature at speed related. Maybe just run the surface layer slower or keep the speed and up the head temperature by a few degrees??
On topic ā€¦ Iā€™ve got a P1S which is replacing my old FSUN QQ-S Pro delta, I do print some tall sections so will be getting a new FLSUN V400 in the near future. I think that deltas are a very elegant solution and can be very good but if you donā€™t put the effort into dialing them in they can be medicore to disasterous!! So Iā€™m used to tuning and torturing printers to achieve speed and acceptable quality.

The P1S is undoubtly quick and good out of the box but the remote UI and control through bambu is poor. My experience is that although the printer is remote from me, 100 yards away in my man cave and is on the same network I always get a cannot connect and the file pushed through the cloud.
I really miss the utility of Octoprint, esocially stacking ready files. I send print and off it went and all I had to do was clear the bed, give it a wipe and start the next up.
Now I have to either navigate the teensy display, find the file in the list and start it. I have to do this at the machine as the bambu app (on the P series) doesnā€™t show me the files on the TF.
I also do need to minitor the camera, the frame rate is letā€™s generously say low. I have had one (only one) spagheti incident, Octoprint would have caught this and halted the print for me. In this case the previous attempt had the head knocked the parts off the bed leaving a lovely brim behind which was a settings issue (but only once). The brim to part gap was physically visible!! but that was just a settings tweak to resolve.

So far it seems like a pretty poor sales pitch but none of this is really a deal breaker.
What you get if you go for a P1S is essentially a cut down X series machine, the mechanics are identical as far as I can see. The electronics are where the savings have been made, if you can live with the limitations that imposes then you have X1 print quality and speed at a lower price. TBH itā€™s the output that really matters, you can change your work flow to get around that.
You get a printer that is capable of producing very good quality prints at impressive speeds and at very little cost (new hot end and extruder gears) can manage the same range of engineering materials.
Whatā€™s not to like about that?

Oh and thanks for the heads up on HomeAssistant, must look into that.

35

I think at 300 feet your pushing the limits of 2.4GHz. That might explain the connectivity problems your having.

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36

I wouldnā€™t trust 2.4 that far either, throw in a misty day and Iā€™d loose the signal for sure. 5 is even more flakey ;(
The man cave is at the other end of a CAT6a lead with itā€™s own local repeater. A bit overkill but itā€™s also used for the NAS, a tower PC that doubles as the satellite TV receiver/recorder and to realtime control my CNC mill through another ndedicated and much hacked PC.
The printer is all of 1.5m from the repeater.

Might be my understanding of the how it works, Iā€™d assumed preference was to LAN with fail over onto cloud. Is it actually cloud unless you opt for ONLY LAN??

37

How do you do it? I have a x1c so :man_shrugging:t2:

38

I am sorry I miss to reply.
I was referring to a comparison to other printers. E.g. yesterday, I was doing some changes to my S1Pro, which is ā€œperfectlyā€ tuned for ā€œfastā€ prints, and most of the processes are automatic with Klipper macros; I still need to dedicate time to tram the bed, first layer z offset, etc, etcā€¦ which I almost forgot because of BL X1C.

This is only my opinion from observation, and not necessarily a fact; BL fast print rely on printing at higher temperatures to reduce filament viscosity. This temperature difference will result in a different surface look (glossy or foggy). I notice these differences mostly with dark filament from third-party manufacturers.
BL filament (only tested: PLA basic, PLA-CF, ABS, PC, PAHT-CF and PET-CF) is designed for printing at high temperatures, so it holds a good look even at higher flow rates.

Not only the filament but the machine settings. For example, with PETG, I used to have a filament string sticking to the nozzle during cooldown, e.g. for first-layer inspection. This also happens, but not so significantly with other filaments. Yet, these ā€œminorā€ issues donā€™t occur when I use BL filaments.