Sell me on a P1S (or the X1)

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OK, I started 3d printing about 5 years ago, started with an Anet A8, realized it was barely functional. Upgraded it to an all metal frame, still not happy, finally bought and assembled a Prusa MK3S+ in 2020. And that was fine for the personal projects I was doing. I want to start 3D printing for others and want to decrease my print times. I do like the capability of the Bambu printers, especially the AMS unit, however I very much like the openness of the other printers. I am able to use any slicer and Octoprint to manage my printing. How much of that will I have to give up going with a Bambu? Can I still use Prusa Slicer, with all my filament settings? Can I Upload, manage and monitor with Octoprint (unfortunately I donā€™t think so.) Does Bambu have a option like Octoprint that DOES NOT depend on cloud resources. Currently I am able to start the print on one computer, and log into Octoprint from any other local computer and monitor the print. This is helpful when the 3D printer is in the basement, and I am in the kitchen , or living room and have the ability log into 'octoprint.local" and monitor the printer. Will they ever allow Octoprint?

I have more questions, but this is a good start

Rusty

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This may not be what you are looking for. Been printing since 2015 or and currently have 6 printers. One home made, 4 Creality and one P1P. Even bought S3D years ago but now that version 5 is out, theyā€™ve fallen behind in features and havenā€™t worked out the kinks yet so BS and Orcaslicer is my preferred slicing and printing software.

Iā€™m at a point now where I want to sell all my Creality printers because my P1P is just simply plug and play that I have no desire to go back to all the meddling/TLC/hand-holding my previous printers require.

While I have not experimented with the option yet as it sounds like there are still issues, there does appear to be a lan only mode, skipping the cloud.

ymmv

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I have X1C , but my older printer is Prusa mk3S+ in general X1C is faster , but i chaged to Revo6 with 0.4 0.6 and0.8mm in prusa and still a bit slower with 0.4, but for some tasks and good prints you have to slow down X1C so i found that my prusa is better for some prints - So prety much TPU and PLA i prusa and X1C ASA and ABS . PETG on both . Multiple printers is the solution to speed not fast printers if you want high quality
And yes i went through couple of others the hustle wasā€¦ even Prusa has more work in comparison to X1C

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Bought a P1P to test the waters, sold all my creality printers and will never go back to a bed slinger. I lived happily ever after! The End.

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I know it is a good printer, the P1S and X1C, but it is the working environment that is the hangup for me. I like the Slicer and Octoprint setup I have now. How different is the Bambu setup? If I knew I would be able to use Octoprint, I would have already ordered one. Without that I am on the frence, looking for userā€™s that have used both to share their opinions. I donā€™t want the cloud feature.

Rusty

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A lot depends on what you want to do. Some printers do some things better, some much better, and some not at all. The AMS is the best solution I have seen for multiple filaments in a single hot end. If you want multiple colors on a print, Bambu is for you. If you want 2 filaments that need very different temperatures, Bambu does not do it. It is a quality of life improvement to do one print with PLA and the next in ABS and not have to mess with filament. Easier that others, but not impossible with any printer.

Usin the cloud is wonderful. Slice it and send it from the slicer. Click on another tab and watch the printer. Controls for the printer right there. An app for iPhone or Android that does the same, except slice. The problem is that my prints go to China. I donā€™t care cause they can have the whistles I print. The problem for me is What if they go away. There is a way you can use the printer without outside web stuff on your local network, but I have never used it so I donā€™t know how well it works. I had Octoprint a year ago and Studio does most of what it did, It might do graphs and I think I could stack prints, but I have to touch the printer between prints soā€¦ There is a micro SD slot on the printer so you can slice and push buttons on the printer.

The printer has some features most do not. Most features are supported by gcode. Most slicers do not know this code. For example, any slicer can slice a model, Bambu Studio can have 3 color changes on each layer. So, you can use any slicer, canā€™t send to the printer through their cloud, if you donā€™t want the Bambu things. The slicer is open source and there is already an alternative, Orca. Bambu works on theirs and they implement things Prusa puts in their slicer.

Bambu is a fork of Prusa so your settings might just move over, if you want the stuff Prusa does not support.

Parts of the system are not open source, others like the slicer are. They do not charge exorbitant prices. More than no name AliExpress, about the same as a real brand. Some parts, hot ends to take standard nozzles and build plates, are available from others.

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I have used Octoprint for years, spaghetti detective, time lapse plugin, etc. Bambu has all the same features except that it is built into the SW and works automatically without any effort, whereas with Octoprint it was up to me to integrate many independent things and get them working. Open sounds great, and I guess it is if your priority is to play with modifications. But if you just want a working printer, this Bambu works waaaaay better and more seamlessly than anything I was ever able to accomplish with my ā€œopenā€ printers and various after-market products. Perhaps this isnā€™t directly responsive to your question, because you ask about open/independent alternatives more than you ask you about opinions on how much to prioritize openness and independence in the first place. I guess I can only finish with : (1) I am super happy with moving to Bambu, it seems amazing how much better it is; (2) if open/independent operation is your goal, ā€¦well that does not seem to be their goal (at least so far), so maybe it isnā€™t a fit for you.

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Definitely not a fan of the cloud, call me gun shy, or whatever, but if I buy the hardware I donā€™t want to have to ask permission, or run my jobs through the cloud. But that asideā€¦ I have never had issues printing, the MK3S+ has never faulted me, and Octoprint is quite simple to setup and run. But anyway, I am still researching with an open mind.

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been there/done that with octoprint too. Thereā€™s 4 Piā€™s that were the latest upgrades at the time now silent plus a few more of the older ones Pi 3ā€™s that were in use before that. Sonic pad sitting next to the Pi rack. Was in the middle of setting up both the Ender 5ā€™s, one pro one plus with skr mini e3 boards. Bad taste with that was discovering no standards across manufactures and was a little ticked at having to swap power wires iirc but that was last year.

While I got used to octoprint, I donā€™t miss setting it up. That or Klipper . Both remind me of Linux well cuzā€¦

Another way to look at it, M$ Operating Systems are great for the non-computer user. Linux is for the other side, the ones that want to dig in and make it their own.

If you want Windows OS simplicity, go with a BL printer and set it up totally offline if and when that is possible but at least there is lan only mode for now.

If you want to tweak your stuff to your liking then by all means stick with your current printers. I do like as someone else pointed out about utilizing specific printers for specific print qualities/features/etc so I do plan on keeping my E5+ since it has the required build size I need for certain project.

For now Iā€™m not playing with most settings in BS. Layer quantities and such sure but I let the thing auto level each print and have found 0.28mm layer height to be of better quality than any of my previous printers say down to 0.12mm layer height. I do enjoy the speed at which this thing prints but realized soon after getting it if you want quality and or other print effects that you do have to slow it down as mentioned.

Some of my projects are also the type of stuff that will never cross any pond to go thru any other server. Those designs are not for sale but I will not allow them to leave my house.

If anything, pick up a P1P and see what itā€™s all about. Wait till Sept 20th at a min iirc that date. They be teasing everybody with these announcements lately.

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no mention of the K1 or K1 Max (if avail yet). Cheaper than BL but believe they also use the cloud going by posts on the S3D forums.

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I have an X1C and still have my S1Pro. Itā€™s a game-changing printer, significantly reducing the user workload, so it is usually just printing. Until having one, I always felt that I had an excess filament. Now, I am used to getting empty spools every week.
It isnā€™t perfect, and it gives you issues, but mostly are easily solvable by anyone with some experience in 3D printing. It is swift, and especially in huge prints. But you must reduce speed if you look for quality or functional prints. For example, my S1Pro (Klipper) prints almost as fast as the X1C without notable quality differences in smaller prints.
It is not an issue but an alert, as it seems to be one of the typical causes of criticism.
If you buy a BL printer, you will have one of the most reliable printers in the market, which allows you to print whatever you desire; however, you enter into the Bambu ecosystem, which is and will continue to be closed, making you dependent on them. At a certain point, you will need their support (in my experience, excellent but slow), which entails specific protocols that may feel strange (this was my feeling). Additionally, despite working great with any dry spool, their printers are optimised for their filaments and do not expect this to change. I am saying this as a delighted customer.

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I would say only get the x1c if you dont want to do manual calibrations. I found that my x1c is very close to being perfect as far as accuracy on the calibrations. To the point that I use the lidar results from my x1c on my p1p also. Doing it manually is a pain when you use a ton of filament. Another thing to think about is the screen. I never use mine.

The only other printers that I would even think about would be The new prusa line, a voron 2.4 or a wuxn. If I was on a budget and I needed large scale do it all in a box, K1 max

If I need silence or perfect tpu prints without taking the head apart, I use a different printer.

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@JayZay
In what way is it reducing user workload?

So you are saying the trade off for speed is a reduction in print quality? I have heard that the faster speeds were causing the prints to be less glossy, for some that may be desired.

Hard to say itā€™s one of the most reliable with itā€™s short track record, but the short term does suggest that they are reliable. As far as support, my impression with closed products is not great. DJI for example will drop support for products not long after successors are released. I understand technology moves forward, but I am not spending $1k every 2-3 years to just maintain company support.

When you say the printers are optimized for their filaments, what do you mean exactly? Canā€™t you change filament settings in the slicer?

@StreetSports
Manual Calibrations?

Thanks!

Rusty

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IMO, itā€™s the intangibles that I enjoy the most. They just made printing easy. If you use 0.4mm nozzles and print BBL filaments, its literally plug and play. From the AMS to the Bambu Studio (slicer). Things just work and its easy to do. The filament cutter, and wiper add fully autoloading and unloading with the AMS, and is hugely convenient. The spool holder loading is also very automatic as well, and just add another convenience. The wiper also makes pulling stuff off the nozzle a thing of the past. Things are just easier.

Granted, the speed is a big draw, but Vorons, Rat Rigs, and VZ Bots are faster and more adjustable. Even the Creality pads and clones will bring your Ender 3ā€™s and 5ā€™s back to life nearly halving their print times. Geezsā€¦there are now even bed slingers out running the BBL printers (with standard profiles) with solid print performance. But again, the real draw is how easy it can be to print with the BBL stuff.

Iā€™ve needed to only modify one BBL filament profile. Just one (of 9 different types of filament PLA, PETGs, PAs, AERO, etc). All of the rest have been very good. Sure, I could jump down the rabbit hole and go nuts tweaking, but for almost all the BBL filaments Iā€™ve used, they just work. Again, the ease of printing is on another level.

IMO, their printers are just on another level and it appears they will be there for the foreseeable future. Personally, Iā€™m not a fan of company (based on how they treat their customers), but I can appreciate what they have created. I believe they make the best printers on the market (at least in the low temp range, up to 300C). So, Iā€™m not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. Also note, my bone to pick with them is minor, so I donā€™t hate them, but I will keep arms length and treat them like an expendable partner.

BTW, Iā€™m a modified P1P user.

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I switched from an Ender 3 with Octoprint to the X1C and couldnā€™t be happier. The current state of the software does everything Octoprint did with the minor exception of bed level mesh display which I do miss. I only use the open source Orca Slicer as itā€™s just better than the Bambu Studio.

I ran mine in LAN only mode and confirmed that it was not using the internet at all for a few weeks and it works great. I ended up going back to the cloud as I like to check in on prints with the Android app while out of the house.

They may wish to have a closed system but it will not work. I have never bought any BBL filament and have a third party hotend and build plates.

In short, everything you can do with Octoprint/MKS can also be done with Orca/BBL and is not dependent on the cloud in any way.

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The extrusion calibrations.

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How are people on here trying to say a prusa is faster than an X1C? Itā€™s not so much the print speed that decreases the time so much yes it helps a lot but itā€™s mainly the movement speed of the nozzle that makes the prints much quicker. I have both an X1C and and mk3s+. The bambu is ten fold better. Iā€™m sorry but the people who say otherwise are just being fan boys who canā€™t let go of the attachment to the prusa brand. And I fully understand about you, not wanting to switch slicer softwareā€˜s, and your current set up I was the exact same way however, coming from Prusa slicer to bamboo is much easier and way easier than coming from others. It just takes a couple weeks to get familiar with the slicer, like I said, I hated it at first because I didnā€™t really know what I was doing or what all the settings meant but now I like bamboo slicer and specifically Orcaslicer way better than Prusa slicer. Buy once cry once. Get the X1C with ams

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I could be blind but I cant find a single person that said that.

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I donā€™t think anyone said Prusa is faster than X1C. Some have mentioned that due to the speed some filaments were taking on a matte finish, as opposed to a gloss finish when printed slower. In that case, the speed may not be helping you.

Ten fold better? I think that may be a stretch.

Bambu Slicer is a fork of Prusa Slicer, so it should not take much to get familiar. Either way, I did try it out, and it is a little different. I will look further ā€¦

Rusty

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Faster is not always better. My Prusa still produces better looking prints from my experience. But the bambu is 2-3 times faster. A mk4 with IS is proving to be very close in speed to the X1 though. Itā€™s just a product, I donā€™t know why you feel the need to belittle people who have different opinions than you.