So much slop (rant about The Breach makerworld contest)

Let me say this a third time, because I don’t think you’re getting the whole picture: We’re talking about contests hosted by designers where one person decides who wins.

You’re talking more about MakerWorld as a whole.

Why shouldn’t the person hosting the contest be able to moderate the entries? As I look at it now, there are 280 entries in this contest. That’s a manageable number to review, don’t you think?


Once again: As Bullocks already said, Bambu celebrates AI. No question about it. But this is about competitions hosted by designers. Since the designers set the rules, they can certainly decide that, for example, no misleading images may be used as covers, no obvious AI is allowed, and so on.


The second issue is: How can we ensure that the designer chooses a legitimate winner instead of selecting a friend or secondary account?

No obvious AI, how do you determine that?

This has to be trolling, but I’ll ask very cautiously: Are you serious about that question, or are you just being sarcastic?

There were even some examples posted in this thread.

I’m not sure whether you simply lack the knowledge to recognise this at first glance, which is fine because it’s something you can learn, or if you’re just trolling. Please elaborate. :+1:

You must have noticed that a lot of the covers are AI-generated, too. On top of that. There are a lot of mistakes in the cover images.


Before you reply: I’ve actually written a tutorial on this topic, which you’re welcome to check out first. :heart:


Edit: The quote was not included

if you love woodworking… you must be a true human… there must be a reason for it, why many people starting working with wood when they get older… and i think it is in us at some level… because wood was one of the first materials humans can work with… form it and shape it… i believe that humans just have a positiv feel and connection to wood in general because wood is and was simply pure good to us… people still feel something warm and calm inside when being near an open fireplace… we are simply connected with it, in a positiv feeling…

i actually realy cutting on a block of wood with a knife : )

i just love it… :heart:

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Printing and woodworking go hand in hand IMO

print perfect alignment and clamping jigs; for pennies, ■■■■ yeah. Take that, kreg!

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Of course there is the other fun that comes with AI everywhere — increasing electric bills. The gift that keeps on giving. One part of the state I’m in just learned their electric bills are going up by 50% soon due to infrastructure upgrades for an AI data center under construction.

We have another being built that claims they won’t increase electric bills because they will generate their own - from natural gas. Guess which bills will be impacted there, though.

Thing is, everybody and their dog putting AI in everything still comes at significant cost.

I put solar on the house a few years ago and only have a connect fee (which has itself almost doubled but $16/month is manageable). We’ve replaced gas appliances as they have aged, etc. It’s about the only way to sidestep all the price increases AI is bringing.

I don’t know how others will afford all this AI goodness. There is an unavoidable tax being levied on those who can’t or haven’t installed their own power generation and it’s spreading. We watched others get hit with increasing bills and now it’s here where I live too. If it hasn’t hit everyone else, just give it time.

It’s pretty amazing stuff but it’s an energy hog, contributes to warming, and is displacing humans right and left.

A few different things are being discussed in this thread and I have thoughts on a couple of them:

I don’t think that anyone would argue that AI is here to stay or that it will become pervasive in our lives. However, that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t consider where and how we are comfortable with its use.

Everyone has to make their own choices, but I feel most comfortable using AI tools for tasks that I know how to do myself but are otherwise time-consuming or non-creative. A few recent areas where I’ve used it:

  • Removing blemishes and sharpening images in Photoshop.
  • Fixing a few words in an audio recording of myself (without having to re-record it).
  • Getting some help with math related to slopes in a marble run and the weight of the marbles.
  • Troubleshooting a geometry node in Blender.

For some users, AI can be a great tool for making personal, one-off 3D models. For example, I can imagine individuals with limited time using MakerLab tools to make some fun projects. I’ve even used this to give little funny custom busts as gifts to my nieces and nephews.

There’s a whole spectrum of how AI can be used and I think there’s plenty of room for each of us to have reasonable interpretations what we are (and are not) comfortable with.

Although it’s a difficult (if not impossible) challenge, I do believe that labeling would be a good approach. Then, users could determine the types of content they’d like to view (whether in contests or otherwise). Even if this wasn’t perfect, it could still be good.

So, I think that how work is presented is important - whether that’s a system label or just a note about how the object was made. If a model is largely generated by AI, I think it’s important for that to be noted. If I went to an art show or a songwriting competition, I would want to experience works that were made by people. Maybe there could be a separate event for works generated by a machine :slight_smile:

To me, it’s similar on any platform where users are sharing creative works.

-—

Now, a separate part of this discussion is about user-run contests.

I haven’t run a contest myself but have been able to speak with designers who have (and plan to) run contests. Without exception, I’ve found that these designers are excited to have a chance to encourage the community around a theme or constraint that are interesting to them. If there are any benefits from self-promotion, these are far outweighed by the costs of the rewards (which are paid out of pocket by the designer). It’s a fun, not-super-serious way for designers to support other designers and, unless I’m wrong, I don’t think anyone here actually has any indication that this is being misused.

Finally, to the comments of ‘what if a designer chose a friend as a winner’? Well, since the contests are self-funded, if a designer wanted to give a gift card to a friend, they don’t need to orchestrate a contest to do that - they can just give them a gift :slight_smile: It seems like this would be a lot of unnecessary steps if that were their intent. Plus, is there any indication that this has happened? I haven’t seen that mentioned here.

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hmm…
im very oldsoulish… and modern things are not realy something i like on an easy way… but 3d printing is realy something good in my eyes… and yes… its also good for wodweoorking and the workshop…

the same here in europe…
its endless… they all talking about inflation… that the “money is losing its value and power” but what if its actally “our time” thats losing its value…?
because i think this is way much more likely the answer for this inflation right now…
but i never heard anyone speek about this in this contex… hmm…

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:laughing: I’m not even sure I’m reacting to the OP’s idea, but I interpreted it to be insulting. As an Industrial Design here’s my perspective, most fashion based 3D prints have always been “slop” aka the use of valuable raw materials and intellectual resources to make something that had nothing but distraction value.

The fact it’s easier to make it now what we have AI shouldn’t be used to undermine AI, or the people who use it, what should happen is we should just ignore the things that don’t bring value into your life!

At the end of the last century Computers and DDP enabled a generation of graphic design “slop” to flood the market, and at the beginning of the 21st century we saw the democratization of CAD tools and advances in manufacturing (including 3DP) enables a flood of 3D consumer slop.

But like all advances in tech, AI is a tool, don’t throw out the baby with the bath water, become a better consumer.

It’s interesting how many new accounts suddenly pop up in this thread - or accounts that have been inactive for months, even years - just to become active in this very thread, just to post one comment and defend AI, while completely missing the point.

Just an observation. It’s so incredibly targeted to this thread. After all, there are countless other more active topics dealing with AI. Topics that do not focus on a specific competition - but discuss AI in general.

Meanwhile, the person who created the contest posted just once and then disappeared again.

So many coincidences, but oh well, I guess they’re just coincidences. :thinking:

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Or are they?!?

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Time to get out the tin foil hats

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I am reminded of reading of the days when automobiles first appeared on the scene, and horse-and-buggy owners yelled “GET A HORSE!” Where are the horses and buggies now?

People make wood furniture by hand. Furniture is also made in factories using computerized saws, laser engravers, and robotic varnish booths. Anyone tried to shut down the corporate furniture industry? I once built electric guitars by hand… and they were very nice, high-quality instruments. Fender came out with the manufactured Squire Bullet for a little over $100. Anyone wanna try to argue with Fender or tell them they’re “cheating”?

CGI came along and replaced hand-made special effects. In a way I’m somewhat sad about that because at one time if you saw an impressive special effect on a movie, you know it took some real genius to pull it off. These days CGI is as common in movies as popcorn in theaters… and even experts can sometimes no longer tell the difference between CGI and real life. It’s been that way ever since Jurassic Park hit the big screen.

Venting against advancing technology may be warranted (look what it’s done to the environment in the past 100 years)… but also futile. I’m not going to give up my word processor and laser printer for a typewriter. I’m not going to give up my calculator for a slide rule or abacus. I’m not going to give up my automobile for a horse-drawn carriage. (Would you?)

I can understand people who make models by hand getting upset at people using A.I. to do the job. No, the A.I. work is not “slop” (if the user does it right). Their work is not “garbage”… nor any other biased, angry derogatory term someone wants to throw at it. A.I. is the next generation of computer tools. I will admit I get VERY tired of the actual SLOP we regularly find on YouTube, where the poster is too lazy and incompetent to double-check the voice-over and sub-text. But well-done A.I. is well… impressive. And I for one am not going to NOT use A.I. because some Blender modeler wants to take the next 3 weeks to create what I can create with A.I. tools in 30 minutes.

It’s not a matter of being lazy or sloppy. It is a matter of using the tools that are available to us to do the job better and faster. Now when it comes to contests, that’s admittedly a can of worms. For one thing: it is sometimes impossible to tell an A.I. item from a hand-created item. There is a good chance the A.I. item will be more detailed and more impressive than a hand-created item… which is what people are complaining about. I DO AGREE that 3D modeler contests should state up-front whether A.I. items are allowed or not allowed… and IF allowed there should be separate categories for A.I. items and hand-tooled items. But don’t expect that someone won’t cheat. That would be very naive.

Consider this though: There are people who once used line-by-line computer code to create 3D objects (and still do). Do they have valid reason to complain because someone uses BLENDER to do the same thing, faster and easier? That’s a question to consider.

In the end game, trying to stop A.I. is like trying to stop a titanium freight train. Good luck with that. Don’t be surprised when your horse and buggy is run over by a semi truck. Technology will push onward and increase… until it either self-destructs or is destroyed.

In the meantime, I’m not sure I have a solution to this A.I. vs Human creation issue. I don’t have a way to keep people from cheating in contests. (People have always cheated in contests, long before A.I.) I know that A.I. when used properly still contains a significant element of human ingenuity and creativity. When used improperly it produces the garbage we regularly see on YouTube. But seriously: when I download and print a nifty dragon from MakerWorld, I don’t give a hoot whether it was hand-designed or A.I. created. I still enjoy it.

The reality is that A.I. has been around a LOT longer than most people think it has. It is already involved in a LOT more of the Internet than people would believe… and will become a lot MORE involved as time passes. I would predict that whether to allow A.I. or not will soon become as moot a point as the issue of whether or not automobiles should be allowed on the road. Methinks anti-A.I. folks are fighting a losing battle, and the sooner they wake up to that reality, the less stressed out they’ll be. Because let’s be honest: A.I. isn’t going to be used any less as time passes. People can rant against A.I. all they want, but such is an exercise of futility.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but whether we love A.I., hate A.I. or are indifferent… it is increasingly becoming a standard part of society. Science fiction has been predicting this for decades. Welcome to the age of science fiction become science fact.

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Yeah I dont think anyone is saying “GET A HORSE!”, what we are saying is “ Quit selling junk cars”

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“what we are saying is “ Quit selling junk cars”

I have no disagreement there. But my solution to that is simple: I don’t buy junk cars. Realistically I know there are always people who will try to sell them.

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Real photos would help with that alot. AI makes it hard to tell if its a good car or not until its to late

Is there a single comment of yours where you don’t ignore all previous comments just to collect thumbs-down? It must be your hobby!

But you’ve really perfected the art of collecting thumbs-down - not because of your opinion, but because you always completely miss the point - while ignoring the topic and all comments.

So here’s a :+1: no, wait, a :-1: or would you prefer a :backhand_index_pointing_left:

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sober up, we’ll see ya tomorrow
the crux of the issue is that the image chosen by the uploader does not depict a physical print of the model; a bait-and-switch; a problem as old as time so long as a quick buck is to be made. AI is just the next [and dramatically easier] tool being used to do bait-and-switches. The actions of the human are the ones that are reprehensible - the squishy meat and bones that pilots the mouse cursor and actually chooses the image [the bait] that intentionally is not a print of the stl [the switch] before pressing enter. slop accomplished. empty moderation means you get away with it by default until you don’t. AI isn’t what makes the slopstorm possible, only easier, it used to be called spam or bots. It’s not solely about monetary rewards, but wow you attract a lot of automation focused non-users once you start writing checks.

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Wayfinder If I’m downloading an STL, OBJ, or 3MF file, I expect the final print to resemble the photos being presented. I shouldn’t print it only to discover obvious AI artifacts, like extra fingers or details that don’t exist in the actual model. Even if someone relies on AI, they can still iterate, review the results, and deliver something more accurate and polished.

I also think the comparisons you’re making aren’t quite equivalent. AI is fundamentally different because of its scope and capabilities. It’s not limited to a single field or task. The same technology can generate text, images, audio, video, 3D models, and code. Because of that, the impact is much broader than past transitions

In this particular context, there arguably shouldn’t even be a debate about whether AI use is acceptable, because the rules are clear.. exclusive models are not supposed to use AI assistance, either partially or entirely, AI generated content is also not allowed in contests.

The confusing part is that these rules no longer seem to be enforced consistently. We’re now seeing AI generated content being featured, which sends a mixed message to creators who are actually following the stated guidelines.