Yeah eveness is good but previous machines have proved that you don’t need rocket science to print good parts. Most X1Cs have had a worse temperature eveness (mine for example was one but it printed fine on almost anything). A 5 degree ish difference is perfectly fine and even if it’s causing a failure, then 99.99% the design itself has a major flaw that is prone to fail. A warp is a warp, can’t just blame it on the bed being uneven for 5 degrees… which usually is the least contributing factor of warp.
Consider that @T_guttata ran his example at the highest possible temperature (set to 120C). Normally, the highest temperature is the worst possible case for temperature uniformity. Yet it came out surprisingly uniform, even though all but one of the sensors was located near the edge. If there is still significant non-uniformity, where is it?
All I can think of is the draft caused by the air intake for PETG filaments. I sincerely think that Bambu should think twice about whether that cooling is needed or not for PETG. Personally, I don’t think it’s ever needed unless its in a hot summer. It boggles me that Bambu never took room temperature into consideration. IMO it should have a target chamber temperature for cooling as well, instead of just fully blast the intake fan.
AFAIK, nobody has yet done temperature uniformity measurements when the chamber heater is engaged. It would be interesting to know for sure whether that diminishes the differences even more, as one would expect it might. So far, by refraining from engaging the chamber heater, it’s almost as though we’re fighting with one hand tied behind our back. For instance, maybe with the chamber heater at 65C, the build plate would actually reach 120C that it was set to. That’s different from temperature uniformity, but still, it would be interesting to know. Maybe it was some engineers idea of a failsafe by not having it heat that high without the chamber heater turned on.
Ah yes, it would make it much lower. But I think people mostly are complaining about petg related filaments, as they are taken as “low temperature filaments” and bambu would blow outside cool air on parts especially on the front side, which causes the warp to be intensified. I think Bambu should really make enabling that vent an option when sending prints.
Surely it must be a slicer setting of some kind?
Currently it’s hiding in the filament gcode, while I think, it should be a switch, just like enable or disable ABL, flow dynamics calibration…etc.
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Quite contrary. Blasting max temp would result in the faster bed heatsoaking. Balancing on the lower temperature (for example PETG or PLA) is way harder, as the heater cannot transfer heat to the peripheral parts of the plate without overheating central parts (right above the heater).
There are two main ways to achieve uniformity:
- Using equally-spread heater elements.
- Using thermal mass for your advantage and attach non-uniform heater element to a thick slab of aluminum.
As we can see, H2D has none of it - It uses thin cast aluminum plate without edge-edge heater. It is Thermodynamics, not magic. Firmware can resolve only to a certain degree.
In all honesty, bambu fanboys who are defending bambu to the grave should pull their heads out of the sand and demand a recall from Bambu. It hurts everyone. Proper bed heaters are not expensive, especially in China.
Sure, one may say that for PETG you can use smooth plate, for PLA satin plate (or cold plate) and call it a day… but let me ask you this. In all honesty, is this what you expected going with compromises for a $2000 machine?
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Sure you can do that, and you may achieve results with compromises like that (although, your PETG overhangs will pass their regards to you).
However, from daily printing standpoint - printing PETG with a chamber heater, wasting so much energy on what can be printed open frame is just… just stupid proposition.
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I was worried about all the things you mentioned when I first started this thread, based on CNCKitchen’s early youtube and what some others have said, but as a practical matter, after receiving my printer, I don’t know that I’ve run into actual problems of the type you describe.
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And I don’t think you will, until you … will.
It all comes down to a specific use case. Adhesion issues are usually seen on a large, vertically-walled prints. If you don’t do this stuff often - then you are not going to see that.
But that’s like 1.5mm belt VFAs… some people here print toys and figurines without straight lines and claim that H2D doesn’t have VFA issues anymore 
I guess, just be happy your use case doesn’t overlap with problem zones? 
I feel even more comfortable letting the H2D print by itself overnight than I did even my X1C. H2D is a little better at detecting errors in progress. I don’t worry that I’ll come back to a blob of death. I don’t know if I would feel quite as comfortable with most other printers. Maybe a Qidi Plus 4? I’m not sure, as I don’t own one.
If you want maximum reliability, this may be your printer. Like @maximit said on some thread somewhere, he’s not looking for a bargain, he’s looking for the most reliable printer.
The Prusa Core one is a relatively small printer, so I’d feel like I was going backward with that one. If anything, like a lot of people, I would have wished for a bigger printer than the H2D, but this is all we’ve got. You can wait for something a lot larger, but it may be a long wait.
Reliability is a very subjective thing, as some people reported, heir printers run for a thousand of hours without a hiccup, or like some others, who run into multiple issues and had to wait for months for a support. For H2D it is still unknown and only after about a year we would learn how reliable it is.
What I think you meant - reprintability. The ability to throw out parts without artifacts and failures reliably. In that regard, majority of the modern printers are quite good at that. And X1 was also good at that.
I forgot to mention that I also like that it can print the higher temp filaments. I’m in the midst of printing my first roll of PPS-CF right now, and I couldn’t touch that on most other printers, except maybe the Qidi Plus 4 or the K2.
In the end, the printer that I think will win big will be a larger printer (400mm^3) that runs plain vanilla Klipper, enclosed, at high temperatures and with chamber heater, and with all the bells and whistles like AI spaghetii detection, tangle detection, etc., and runs plain vanilla Orca slicer. I just haven’t seen that one on the market yet.
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Well yeah, it is nice, but how often are you going to do that? I highly doubt that you can do any mass printing with materials like that, a dedicated high temp printer would be a way better choice for a range of exotic engineering materials. Even at work, where we have Stratasys machines, we don’t print anything crazy, as it’s cost prohibitive for majority of use cases. PA? Yes, PET? Yes, ASA and PC blends? For sure. PEEK, PEKK, PPS? Hell naw.
On the other end, about large printers… The larger the printer, the more issues with stability they have. There is always a trade off. 300-350 today is considered a sweet spot. What will happen in the future? Nobody knows. But what everybody know for sure is that multimaterial future is for IDEX or toolhead systems, not dual nozzle or not AMS systems… Afterall, wasted material is a wasted material.
For the future printer with open-source-my-ass-everything, I don’t think it will happen at all. There are Vorons that can be modded for your requirements, but those are Vorons that you build. You can use Klipper and Octoeverywhere and get your FW features. But you can’t buy them as prebuilts. Frankly, there is no market for pre-builts like that. They would cost a lot and the user base for prebuilts is usually PLA choggers, not PPS users.
Probaby not often, but when I want to, I can. I have a need at the moment for the PPS-CF that’s more than merely academic. I suppose I could send it out to PCBway… Yes, I suppose that’s an alternative. I haven’t checked their prices, but maybe it would be easier to cost-justify that alternative for printing higher temp materials than to own a printer which can do it occasionally. Except I need my PPS-CF prints now, not a week from now, so there’s also that.
Last time I checked the price of outsourcing prints in high temp materials, the cost was astronomical. That was a couple of years ago though. Maybe things have improved a lot since then.
@Advocado I’m not sure what you mean though by its better to have a dedicated high temp printer. Which one exactly?
Can I ask on why specifically PPS-CF, versus something similar but not as expensive, not as intensive to print… PET-CF? Or PA6\12-CF?
I know PPS is used in automotive, where chemical and super high thermal resistance are the must, but what do you need it for?
That’s just my plain curiosity.
You are welcome:
Naturally, higher upfront cost, that is practically will pay itself super quick, if your requirements is to use or sell high-caliber thermoplastics.
Non-metalic adapters for 2" smurf tube. Used to connect wiring conduit to an electrical outlet box. I chose PPS-CF because of high heat deflection temperature, because of where it will be mounted, and also natural flame resistance.
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Yeah, that’s more of an overkill, but I gotcha!
Have you looked at PC FR. I’m a UL508 panel shop and use it for mounting brackets etc. Its also has a high heat deflection (Not as high as PPS-CF), stiff, and fire retardant properties. It seems more than suitable for smurf tube fittings and is much much cheaper at 1/3 the cost. I would almost guess that factory smurf tube fittings are a form of PC FR. It also doesn’t have any conductive materials like CF. Main benefit for you I would guess is the appearance of the CF and maybe tensile strength.