How to get good layer adhesion in vase mode?

Bambu Lab P1 Series
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I’ve been playing around with vase mode.

I have been using a .4mm nozzle and some Zyltech silk pla filament.

The prints are coming out great, but they are very weak. Almost so fragile that the slightest squeeze causes layers to delaminate. Is it possible to get decent strength in vase mode - that is to say, enough strength to be lightly handled without significant concern of breaking it? Are my expectations too high?

After toying around with it for a bit, the strongest print I’ve gotten so far was:

.8mm line width - I’ve checked this on my latest print - getting .78-.79mm wall thickness with the .4mm nozzle by using the Bambu PLA profile and dropping the speeds down to 30mm/s for outer wall and manually raising the print temp to ~235. Can’t really seem to get any more than .8mm out of the .4mm nozzle, though it should theoretically be possible by adjusting an extrusion multiplier such as the one in cura (flow rate), but I don’t see a similar setting in studio. This seems to be analogous to the max volumetric speed in Studio, but it doesn’t seem like I can tell the printer that for a certain print I want the flow rate to be 125%, for example. I don’t know how the “max” rate plays into the print job under normal circumstances. Regardless, even with these settings, with a pound or two of pressure the print makes some cracking sounds and begins to open up between the layers.

I’m looking at getting the .6 and .8 nozzles which, if my testing with the .4mm nozzle is accurate, I should be able to hit at least 1.2mm and 1.6mm thick walls respectively with the settings I’ve tested. Will this improve vase strength? What else do you guys do to enhance the layer adhesion in these parts? Is it wise to disable cooling in spiral vase mode - has anyone tried this?

Clearly these prints aren’t going to be very strong in general, but I am interested to learn how strong they can be in spiral vase mode, and what you guys are using as optimal settings to get decent spiral vase prints. Anyone care to share?

Thanks!

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I have printed a lot of vase-mode prints, but as you are aware, a single wall isn’t going to be too strong. Sometimes the design can add strength with indents and outdents, but if you have an existing design that isn’t going to help. As for layer strength, that will depend on the filament and printing temperature - it hasn’t been much of a problem for me. A thicker wall, as you’ve tried, can help, but maybe slow the speed down to get better adhesion.

2 Likes
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Hmmm a lot to cover here. Let’s see …

One thing you can try is instead of Vase mode, print with 2 walls and zero top layers. Depending on what you’re printing of course. That gives you the same effect but a thicker surface.

Next. Trying to get a .8 wall out of a .4 nozzle is … problematic. In theory you can, ITRW not so much, as you’ve found.

A .6 or .8 nozzle is the ultimate answer. A lot of people are switching to .6 as the standard now that printers are able to push the plastic faster. I run .6 unless I need a really detailed print. Any Vase mode stuff - .6 or .8.

Are you running OrcaSlicer? Sounds like you’re using Studio. Studio is great software, but for many things OrcaSlicer is better when you’re trying to push the edge. I’m fairly active on here so I often forget whom I’ve suggested this to but you might take 5 mins and read this (Click the Blue Link):

Don’t feel like it’s “another thing to learn” - OrcaSlicer is 95% the same, but it has Calibrations that let you fine tune that BL Studio doesn’t. Looks and acts the same. When you’re right at the edge of what’s possible, that can be the difference you need and it’s free to try.

On “getting a .6 or .8 nozzle” - Yeah, do so, particularly the .6. But also buy a Fan, Heater, and Thermistor as well. That will let you assemble a “plug and play” full hotend that makes swapping a breeze. They’re very reasonably priced and will kick you up high enough to get free shipping.

You also get three heaters and three thermistors for the price, which can be handy if something goes south. :wink: They do fail, usually at a most inopportune time, life taking a shot at ya!

Cooling - Yeah, that can be killed easily enough and a quick print of say 10 layers will give you an idea of how it’s going.

For a .4 nozzle … trying to be polite here but, yeah. Seriously - get OrcaSlicer and if you have it run at least these four calibrations and save it as a new Filament Profile

  1. Flow Rate, 1st one.
  2. Pressure Advance
  3. Max Flowrate (different)
  4. Temp Tower.

Do them in that order. I usually skip the Flow Rate 2 test (not Max) have yet to see it help.

I strongly suggest you invest the time to do these test on any new reel you get if it’s a new Brand. Sometimes a new color of a new brand will need it too. Plastic formulas vary.

The joy of dropping in a reel, choosing your customized profile, and knowing what you print is going to work is fabulous. :grin:

It will also let you maximize speed. I had a print on a filament I couldn’t get to work for the life of me. I ran those tests and when I printed it was so good I found I could run on Ludicrous mode!

The print went from 1:48 to being done in 1:04 (hours). That’s quite a savings. The part looked great too. My Wife was astounded. (She’s pretty 3D savvy). Me too.

That’s all for now, hope it helps some.

Cheers!

1 Like
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Thanks - I have the .6 nozzle (full assembly) on the way, so I will do more testing then. I thought about going with 2 walls, but if I understand correctly, vase mode doesn’t support 2 walls and I’d therefore get a seam - is that incorrect?

I did manage to ger a .8 (approximately) line width from the .4mm nozzle, but I did have to switch from the generic pla profile to the bambu pla profile - I assume the important setting there is the max volumetric flow.

Also, you are the one that originally showed me Orca. I use it about 50\50 versus Studio. I like it! Anyway, I think I am going to hold off on more vase prints until the .6 nozzle comes in. Seems like that is the biggest change that’ll affect this. Thanks!

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Cool! Well, it could but if your pressure advance is dialed in it can be quite small / invisible depending, of course, if the 3D gods (lower gods LOL) are smiling on you that day.

You could always print a test < 10 layers and look …

That’s my understanding also.

Best idea. BL seems pretty good about speedy delivery from my orders at least.
YW! Catch ya later!