Since I do mass manufacturing, slower means lost profits. I will say that though I do print fast, it is not as though these parts are weak. Several of these have screws, heat set inserts, printed threads, and so on where they get assembled and disassembled several times a day. They are also shipped around the world. I say none of this to brag, but to show that these are not little cute prints but large, structural, engineering models.
As for VFA, I tune a LOT around that and have found that for my models, these settings work. I really wish Bambu dealt with this in their engineering phase cause it can truly be atrocious at times.
I do find that many people do not understand where they can cut corners and where they need to slow down.
3D prints get their strength from the walls. It like how a pipe can almost be as strong as a solid bar, especially in certain orientations. While infill does help, walls provide way more to the strength as that is where the force is applied. Printing thicker lines on the walls also increases surface area and thus, adhesion. Printing thick, fast infill can lead to large time savings while causing little to no strength loss.
I have ran 30 unique designs, 10 iterations each, for around 20-30kg with these settings with not a single failure.
If you read my post again, and I added an edit explain more, I stated I did 5 mm/sec^3 less than the calibrated max. I was worried that if I placed numbers, someone is just going to copy mine and they will be sorely disappointed as my Black ASA can do 25mm/s easy where Green is pretty agressive at 22 mm/s. I have even found changes batch to batch with PolyMaker Blue ASA.
So no, these settings are not overly fast due to max volumetric speed being slow.
Definitely miss-read that. But the point of the post still stands, people shouldn’t read too much into what others say about speed without knowing what the volumetric speed is, at least when using a Slic3r derivative.
Honestly, I thought you were both leaving a lot of speed on the table at those low speeds. ASA is a very fast printing filament. It has its limitations, but speed is not one of them. But if you are using 25mm3/sec as a baseline for the faster colors, you are much more in-line with the normal expectation.
I know what max volumetric speed is, but I never use it as a sole speed-break (as you shouldn’t). I also find that tuning specific speeds just works better than adjusting only mvf.
Its really not a significant difference in speed. Maybe 30-45mins. Clearly our goals are different but I guarantee you my parts are not weaker than yours or less good looking, if anything they are better in both ways… that’s why I’d rather stick with consistent results. And as you mentioned, colors affect results, my settings work with any color and ABS as well. Zero thought behind pressing print for every model. The time you save printing faster I save by starting new prints with no alterations.
Please don’t assume I’m printing “little cute prints” lol. Pretty much everything I design and print is a functional part for selling or R&D.
I’m throwing in the towel. ASA, Liquid Glue, Black PEI Textured bed—none of them seem to be on my side. I applied a single layer of Bambu Liquid Glue, drawing from my recent experiences. To my delight, the print went through and printed almost exactly like I’d hope except for some bridging areas.
It’s that awesome Birdhouse showcased in their ASA Filament launch pictures on their site.
Well after letting the plate cool down and removing the print from the plate I knew something wasn’t right…
I noticed the brim stayed put and the bottom of the print was showing the print was actually not fully seated to the bed. (slight warpage?) I tried to pick off the brim like I normally would and it wouldn’t budge, I tried to peal a corner off to hope grab the entire corner and peel that off. Nope. I decided to get it wet and use some soap and water. Nope.
So I had no choice but to take the scraper to it and hoped for the best… well I damaged the plate. #%$&!
At this point I’m just going to create a ticket and show Bambu this thread and give them my experience. I give up. When I am finally able to get a print to stick to the bed the brim sticks too darn good to the surface and causes me to accidentally damage the print surface. I’m done.
I think something is getting lost in communication here so I apologize for that.
You must remember that 30-45 min saving on a 3-4 hour print ends up being quite a huge a loss for me. I am not saying that is true for everyone, but it is true for me and for my clients needs. I never stated your parts were weaker nor did I say that look worse. I also never said your prints were “little cute prints”, I stated that mine were not. The root of my message was for ExtremeElementz as he was having the issues.
You are correct, using Max Volumetric Speed as the limiting factor would be very foolish. I am not sure what gave the impression that I stated or implied that? I did correct the other person who misread what I wrote and thought it said “5mm/s^3”, but no one should use that setting as the main limit.
Overall, my settings work with Polymaker Red, Green, Blue, Black, White, Orange, and Yellow. I do zero tuning per color, only some tweaks to settings for certain parts because there is no single “best” setting for every part. But overall, my settings are, as you say, “Zero thought behind pressing print”
It seems that something I wrote struck a nerve which I did not intend. I know very little about your prints and settings beyond that I “print faster”. You did make a couple statements that I tried to counter with to see if they could help you, but they were not meant as an insult.
ExtremeElementz, before you completely give up I still recommend the Bambu Gold Pei build plate. I personally had nothing but problems with that black one you are using. It seems counterintuitive because they are both Textured PEI plates and should be the same but they are not. The gold one is far superior and ever since I got it I have used it for everything. Trust me you won’t regret purchasing it. Bambu Textured PEI Plate | Bambu Lab Global
Honestly, I had more luck with their smooth High Temp plate than the Black Textured PEI.
Probably go ahead and create ticket, let’s see if BL has anything helpful to add to your situation.
Thanks for the recommendation, I created the ticket walking them through my experience. It’s just disappointing that maybe the black textured build plate it the limiting factor overall or maybe I wasn’t suppose to use glue with parts that use brims idk but that seems off. I was seriously thinking I was in the clear after finding out I just needed to use the glue on that plate. Thanks again.
the brim sometimes sticks for me too on that plate. What I do to get it up without damaging anything is use a razor blade and lift the brim using a sharp corner of the blade carefully. I’ve had success doing this, maybe in the future you can try that instead of a scraper!
my P1S just arrived today.
Bambu-ASA works fine on the GOLDEN Bambu PEI Plate → no Glue needed. i used 95°C Plate-temperature for my first try.
Thank you for chiming in with your experience. Other than the color of the build plate I wonder what’s actually changed, I don’t know anything about the PEI material but maybe Bambu is using better version of PEI or something or a slightly thicker application. Idk but I’m hearing that gold PEI sheet is a winner.
Yeah I tried an exacto hobby knife and tried to pick off the brim trying to get under the brim no luck. When I was using the standard 3D printer scraper and I did get some to lift up it would break right away and I’d be stuck trying to remove the next 1/4-1/2” of the brim. It was horrible lol. Guess that’s why there is two side for printing on!
I just started to make some large ASA prints for a hydrofoil. Warping is an issue… Here’s my second attempt where I use a custom brim and custom “tie-downs” to try and keep the thing firmly attached to the build plate until everything is cooled down. Not a 100% success, but not completely unusable:
You can see how the model lifted from the little supports on the bottom right (closest to the camera). The lifting started about mid-print.
Next I’ll try to add some more tie-downs there. (The uneven layer lines at mid height and near the top are due to spool unrolling issues.)
Printing specs: PolyLite ASA, 260C, 95C bed, 45-50C chamber, mostly 50mm/s speed, X1C.
The whole thing came off the Gold PEI print plate easily. I had applied a good amount of liquid glue.
I’m very sloppy with the glue but quite careful with my fingers: I remove prints without touching the plate and then I smear some glue over the footprint left by the piece. For small prints I don’t even remove the plate from the printer and I reach in to smear the glue. It’s so easy that I’m not longing for a glue-less solution. (I’m not doing shiny-bottom prints, that might be a different story.)
I think I’ll wait till they bring out the platinum version. It’s expensive to have to purchase a different colour one for every iteration. My Lulzbot Mini has had a pei plate for 8 years and it has never required anything but occasional sanding with a few drops of rubbing alcohol to remove the shine. I like the idea of the textured plate but I’ve had to raise the bed temp by 5 degrees to get it to hold at all and even then sometimes 90% of the way through a print it lets go!
I purchased P1S a few weeks ago. It is fantastic machine though. It printed almost impossible things in PLA that should not even be attempted to print. I also printed with Bambu ASA black and it was no effort at all. All stock settings. No brim, no glue, just straight print. I am a bit impatient though, as I have to wait for plate to cool down to room temp, so I could collect the items from the plate. It is possible the Gold plate has some differences vs. Black textured plate (certainly the price is different). I have both, but only used Gold one it came with.
That’s good to know, I think I’ll be ordering one of the Gold Plates and trying it out. More and more I think that either the chemical makeup of the PEI or thickness of the PEI was better for adhering to the plate. But it’s unknown to us what actually causes it to be “better”.
I chatted with Simon Vez from Vez3D and he swears by purple Elmer’s glue on PEI plates when printing ASA and printing fast without warping. So I will be trying that out on the damaged plate soon just to see the results. But I think I will also be putting the liquid glue away for now lol.
I have a P1S that came with the textured PEI gold build plate and get great quality prints in ASA.
I don’t use glue stick. I occasionally clean the PEI plate with soap and water. I print pretty much entirely functional prints and for ASA use either PolyMakers Polylite ASA or Overture ASA (which people believe is same factory as Polylite). I configure my ASA prints for a mix of strength and speed. If I truly need strength, I typically anneal post print in sand. The following setting is my speed setting (volumetrically limited)
Settings are as follows:
Default Generic ASA Profile (0.4mm Noz, 0.2mm Layer) with the following modifications.
Bed: 100c (default is 90c and I had a lot of lifting from bed)
Max Volumetric Flow: 25mm3/s ( I want to go faster haven’t had time to test 0.6 yet)
Flow Multiplier: 0.95 (bounces between 0.96 and 0.95 being best - you should calibrate on your printer)
K-value (PA etc): 0.026 (not perfect but good enough, you should calibrate this manually. If you have a lidar, the values are too inconsistent right now)
Fans: all off - I’ve previously been using the default bambu part cooling curve but find it’s far too aggressive for thin/overhung/poorly supported areas and causes warping.
Note that I don’t modify the default speeds at all (in the realm of 200-300mm/s). This does result in somewhat weaker prints but it’s usually not enough of a concern to bother printing slower.
I also don’t heat soak as I find it really doesn’t provide much value, even on very large parts.
For post print processing-
- Remove bed from printer
- Let cool fully
- Remove part
Thanks for chiming in! Are you sure you gain anything from annealing ASA? According to How to improve your 3D prints with annealing - Original Prusa 3D Printers it’s not worth it at all (to get any gains the deformation is terrible).
How did you determine the fan-off setting? I’ve been dialing it down a little but left it for overhangs, but I’m not sure that’s correct and haven’t done any real tests. I probably should…
polymaker and overture both make great ASA. I can vouch for this. I especially like the army green polylite.