Minor issue with PETG

Hello everyone,

I own a P1S for a few weeks now. For the first printed parts I used the green sample PLA shipped with the printer. The parts look good so far. To get more into the topic I bought some inexpensive white Sunlu PLA+. The results also look good after determining correct PA, flow rate and temperature.

Now I have a black PETG spool from Extrudr. As before, I did the Flow Dynamic test to get a correct k value and then printed a 1-wall calibration cube, that I use to measure the wall thickness using a micrometer and calculated the correct flow rate. Now, a second cube looks perfect from a measurement perspective.

However, I noticed some tiny zits or holes (cannot really tell, because they are so small) on both black cubes.

I cannot see that issue on my calibration cube for the white PLA+. However, the black PETG has a more shiny look than the more matte white PLA+. Maybe I have the same issue there but cannot see it.

Is this normal? Is this an issue with the filament or even the printer? What can I try to fix this?

I already put the PETG for 4h in the oven to dry it (although it is new and was vacuum-packed). Nothing changed.

I also used the needle to try to „clean“ the nozzle. Again, nothing changed.

BTW, I printed the cube in „spiral vase“ mode, so what we see cannot be seams. I use the 0.2mm Standard profile.



Bildschirmfoto 2024-08-21 um 09.51.00

Best regards

It is recommended to try and dry the filament for a longer period. It seems like the small dots might be related to some remaining moisture in the filament.

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It is recommended to try and dry the filament for a longer period.

What is a good drying time?
Extrudr itself write on their website, that their PETG should be dried at 60°C for 4-6 hours. However, they wrote me via eMail that no drying is necessary, if I use the filament right after unpacking it … which is what I did in the first place.

Today I put the filament in a Sunlu S2 dryer at 60°C for 6 hours (keeping the dryer slightly open using some wedge to let the wet air escape). I then printed a new cube directly from the dryer while the S2 was continuing the drying process.

Well, the new cube has the same issues.


Any ideas? Do you still think it is wet filament? Or maybe some other issue?

That is a very wide open question and there unfortunately isn’t a simple answer. Drying time has a huge dependence on ambient humidity. And then there is the question of knowing when drying is done - how do you know?

There aren’t many solid answers. The one you see in most directions is to dry for X hours at Y temperature which hate to say it is pretty useless. You can get pretty close to specifying a water content by saying what humidity to dry to at what temperature. That does specify a water content for the air in a filament dryer which given enough time also says a lot about water content in a filament that has been in that environment for a while.

But it’s a very imprecise thing as it is now. There’s work being done to address this, though.

I was drying mine @125° for ~24 hours, anything longer didn’t seem to lose much weight

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Now I dried it for 19 hours in my Sunlu S2 @65°C. I weighed the spool before and after drying. Before drying it had 1191,6g. After drying: 1191,6g. So no measurable loss here. And the next test-print did look the same.

Do you still think it is wet filament? What else can cause this?

I found something similar here and here a more extreme example. Unfortuntately, without any real solution mentioned.

I have had the same issue with my PETG. Purchased from Bambu labs, and others. Seems to happen more on the horizontal surfaces too. Walls look very clean.

Hm, today I tried a sample of a black PETG of a different brand (Redline). After drying it for about 14 hours I got the same result.
What can I do?

Did you guys try to disable the “slow for overhang” setting?

Yes, I tried with and without „Slow down for overhangs“.
I also tried a full maintenance including disassembly and cleaning of the extruder. Nothing really changed.

One day I printed 8 cubes. One after another with different settings. And it looked like increasing the speed reduced the number of artifacts.
However, at some point the print went from glossy to matte, so maybe the artifacts were just less visible. And faster prints suffered from ghosting.
For the last cube I used the same settings as for the first. But now it looked much better than the first cube. :thinking:
So if increasing the speed really helps, it is just one factor of the solution.

The next day I did another test. I printed 3 cubes, one after another, all using the same settings. The first had a lot of artifacts, the second was better and the third looked very good.

One more day later I repeated the same test and I got the same result: The first had a lot of artifacts, the second was better and the third looked very good, although using the exact same settings.

Does anybody have an idea what can cause this? :face_with_monocle:

Maybe the outer windings of the spool suck moisture over night, while the inner don’t, causing the first print to look worse than a later print? Does this make sense?

However, even when I printed directly from the Sunlu S2 after drying, I had the issues. But I guess the outer windings should be dry in that case.

And the spool is stored in a dry box, where I put a lot of silica gel in and my humidity sensor (Xiaomi) shows a pretty constant low value of 11-12%.

This drives me crazy. Any ideas?

That silica gel will distort what’s actually going on. Try without desiccant and see where the humidity goes. If you have the poly cereal boxes, that may be a smaller volume and get results faster. Curious where the humidity settles.

You can get an idea of the water content in your filament by putting it in a polyethylene cereal box and sealing it with a hygrometer inside. The box isn’t much bigger than standard 1kg spools so the filament dominates and without desiccant the humidity in the poly box will equilibrate to match the activity of the water in the filament. It’s not a direct measurement of moisture content but is directly related to the moisture content. It takes a few hours for the humidity to equilibrate. I leave mine overnight. But it’s an easy test with pretty conclusive results.

If you aren’t familiar with the poly boxes, Amazon ASIN B08TWH2QHV

I don’t know if your issues are water or not but will have a better idea if your filament pulls the hygrometer way down if you do the test. New PETG HF spools for me are testing out at 40-42% RH on the hygrometer fresh pulled out of their shipping bags, and 10% or below after drying.

You mentioned a long drying period where weight didn’t change - that’s weighing’s Achilles heel. Drying stalls out big time if relative humidity is high and filament can actually gain weight if it starts out already fairly dry and you try to dry it on a humid day. But if your spool was already “dry”, that would give you the same result - little or no weight change. Is it “dry” or is your dryer just not working effectively?

The way to pin down where you are is to test the spool humidity. My dried spools as I said pull the humidity to 10% which is as low as they can read. Spools fresh from the bag give 40-42% readings. Really easy to know which side of wet or dry you’re on.

I think the drying does help but only to a point. I had the same trouble and everyone said You’ve got to dry the PETG, which I did. I pulled it out of the Sunlu S4 dryer bought specifically for that purpose. It had been in that dryer probably 16 hours total, of which at least 10 hours were active drying because, why not?
It improved the issue significantly but it did not cure the problem. Probably reduced it by 75% and the RH of the dryer was indicating high teens numbers.
I didn’t reject the parts before the dryer purchase as they were fine.
I think you don’t want to be running cheap filament through a premium printer under any circumstances other than you know Brand X, though cheap, works well. QA of these filaments are all over the map.

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Thank you two for your replies.

The funny thing is that because this is my first time with PETG, I wanted to spend a bit more money to get one of a premium brand filament here in Europe to avoid running in trouble with bad filament :smiley: It seems everyone on the internet recommends Extrudr PETG, so I ordered it, although more expensive (but also wanted some food safe PETG).

Today I put the PETG back in the Sunlu S2 for almost 3 hours. Most of the time the S2 was closed. Sometimes I opened it a bit to let air escape and finally used some printed wedge to keep the lid open a bit while printing. Then I printed my first cube for the day with the same settings as my 3-cube-tests the last days. And wow, the result was terrible, maybe the worst cube of all. It has so many artifacts. :cold_face:

Then I closed the S2. Dried for another hour and printed while the S2 was closed. The result was maybe a liiiittle bit better, but still pretty bad.

Did I put some more humidity in the filament using the S2? Or is humidity just not the problem? Or did my dry box with desiccant a better job than the S2? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

@MZip
After that print I put the warm spool inside my sealed IKEA 365 box because I don’t have those small cereal boxes. The box is a bit bigger (can hold two spools).
Ambient temperature was around 20°C and ambient RH was about 60%.
Then I measured the values inside the box (without desiccant):

start: 47% RH, 24,4°C
+5 minutes: 42% RH, 26,1°C
+1 hour: 34% RH, 23,2°C
+1 hour: 31% RH, 22,2°C
+1.5 hours: 29% RH, 21,7°C
+2 hours: 27% RH, 21,4°C
+30 minutes (total approximately 6 hours): 26%, 22,3°C

I keep the spool in there over night and will have a look tomorrow where it settled.

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That is actually possible. I’ve seen it and so has @NeverDie. If you have a good scale you can try weighing before and after drying and if you are actually humidifying your filament a scale will see that.

I’m glad you ran that test. The Ikea 365 series looks like it seals well so if the spool was pretty full that should give a good idea where you are and 6 hours to 26% is actually looking promising.

I will be curious how far it drops overnight. I usually drop a couple more percent overnight. It’s not a particularly fast measurement.

Unfortunately 26%, or even 24% if it keeps dropping, puts you square in the “I don’t know” range. I don’t have much of a track record to go by but with PETG HF, my spools have been arriving with RH numbers in this test in the 40-42% range. This is what a print looked like printing straight from the bag:

You can see a little lifting and doughy-looking surface but not terrible. After it was dried, the hygrometer test went below what the hygrometer could read and prints were beautiful.

But this hygrometer test may not be so transferable between different types of filament even though yours is also PETG. The humidity in the box will be affected by how much the water likes sticking to/in the filament. It’s an indirect measure of humidity and you and I are the only ones I know of who have done this test so far. I’d guess that even with the different manufacturers, PETG versions would be more similar than different so at this point there’s nothing glaring and still a mystery. Your prints don’t look terrible. If it is water, you’re on the edge like I was before drying.

My dryer is also an S2. Stock, it doesn’t perform that great if you have much background humidity. Starting at 47% in the Ikea sounds like you’re where we were a month ago. Filament drying will be impacted with that kind of humidity. The more hygroscopic the filament the less successful drying with ambient air will be. I forget if I said here too but just think how your clothes feel on a humid day if you’ve been sweating vs how they feel on a dry day.

The simple fix is always dry on dry days. There’s a thread I started here on my filament drying adventures and it got long and at first there were concept errors and such but if you go through you’ll see what I was getting at. https://forum.bambulab.com/t/filament-drying-preliminary-results

Again, don’t know that you’re seeing water effects. Not familiar with that filament. What I do know is manufacturers say you want it dry. Even though yours is actually what I would think is pretty good (but not as good as it could be) depending on how much they stress “dry”, this next bit may be of interest - or not.

To get dry air, just use a low flow pump like an aquarium pump to push room air through a desiccant column and feed that into your dryer. It sweeps the moist air out while letting the filament see dryer and dry air. You can easily cobble together something serviceable with just an aquarium pump and a container of silica gel beads. It helps if the beads are indicating but they don’t have to for just a test. The pump I used was $20 at Amazon, and 500g of beads will last you a while. I dried 26 spools (and stopped early because I ran out of spools but it was almost done anyway) on 800g so 500 may even be overkill. What you want is path length. Stab a straw of some kind to admit pump air into the bottom and collect air at the top and plumb into the S2. Dry like that and your filament will pull that Ikea hygrometer to 10% or lower. And if you do it, put some cotton or some kind of bead filter into the straw or other tubing. In the dry air the beads pick up static charge and will literally jump around and into the tubing and stick from static charge.

But I really can’t say on your filament moisture content, unfortunately. I was hoping you’d see numbers like I saw undried. That would be easy. You’re in a kind of gray area where I just don’t know.

What I do know is this is what that same print looks like with dry filament. It’s perfect. But until we get more results I’m hesitant to tell you to set up dry air but that will answer the question. If you do the dry air thing and that fixes you up, we’d know that 26/24% is still too wet for that brand/type filament.

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Once you make the jump to ultra-dry, you’ll wonder how you ever managed without it.

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Here’s a link giving an example of how to do it:

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@da-mkay - another user nailed down where he is seeing the break between PETG CF printing well and not so well. Good info in this. Might not be accurate for your PETG but it’s helping to get us numbers that are useful.

@da-mkay: If you use your Sunlu S2 dryer check if the hygrometer can measure humidity below 15%. I own the Creality Space Pi filament dryer and its hygrometer stops at 15%RH. I added a hygrometer which can measure between 5%RH and 95%RH.

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If you use your Sunlu S2 dryer check if the hygrometer can measure humidity below 15%

I don’t know how to check that :smiley:
However, I have a Xiaomi Temp/Humidity sensor. And I know it can measure down to 9% (the lowest value I have seen so far).
So I tried drying the filament on the heatbed for 12h. Heatbed set to 75°C. Then I put the filament on the bed and its filament box over it. I made some holes in the top of the box. On the inside walls of the box I put some tinfoil. Then I put my Xiaomi hygrometer on top of the box, near the holes. It started with 39% RH and ended with 16% RH after 12 hours.

But the result was still very bad.

So I cleaned the inside of my PTFE tubes. And I printed one of those filament cleaners, where you put a small sponge in. When the filament runs through it, dust particles get caught.
And the prints got much better again … but could be a coincidence.
Now I am back to where I was before doing my last 2 drying-tests (S2 again and heatbed drying):

Today I printed again three cubes. The first one has artifacts, but the last one is almost perfect. Just a few artifacts, and very small. No settings changed. So I don’t think that humidity is the (major) problem here.

But I have no idea what can cause the first cube to have lots of these artifacts which disappear (almost completely) on the third cube.

Maybe some thermistor issue?

@MZip, @NeverDie :

The idea of using dry air is interesting. Will try that in the future, but yeah … I have the feeling that moisture is not the real problem here.