Speculation about new printer announcements

Other topics
477

Somehow Yes - but I rarely go even to 95A, mostenly I remain on 58D - I also adjust the structure if it needs to be softer and he also mentions that in passing.

He doesn’t give instructions, he makes determinations - recognizing and implementing the variables, to find the solution needed - everyone has to do it by themselves…

There are 100 ways to make something softer…hate for 4 weeks Covers for screws where people hit their heads on, the things I made were buttery soft after printing - but they were only 2 walls without almoste no inner filling - then I just had to draw them that way that it worked. If you have solved the softness constructively and not through the material. That can`t by always the way on every product but it can… the more experience you have, than more tricks you have up your sleeve.

He also talks about printer settings to make it softer and not just how to print very soft TPU :wink:

At the beginning I also had the feeling that I needed TPU softer than 95A (and at 95A, do you have problems there by a direct extruder of today?) - today I don’t know what I could use TPU softer than 95A - Today I have more the feeling that I need harder than 58D…

Well there was a hugh discustion how much dual gear the A1 really is. This really is an extremely bold, if not cheeky, interpretation. But it is also not sure how much it maters, by TPU i think it matters. Also that TPU just fits on the X1C and not to the AMS which is just noted into to the AMS description and not on the combo pack descrition. So there is may a thing I see a littel bit different than Robert anounce on his Video before. Since even Bambulabs and Prusas Marketing is crossing the red line as often they can cross, they just cross that way that note everyone will note it straight… But even to this points were they cross someone may paid close attention too and that’s also annoying because you have to check every single word yourself and thats sucks.

478

By “dual gear” I do believe they mean two pinch rollers instead of one. For non-TPU/TPE filaments, the print results allegedly show little to no VFE on the print when there’s only one pinch roller. In contrast to that, there can be VFE problems with a two pinch roller system because of the way the two gears mesh together and interact. Allegedly it is for this reason that the A1 mini prints remarkably well and without VFE. I don’t own one, so I’m basing this on what I’ve read.

479

I don’t discuss dual gears anymore. The A1 is, in my opinion, the only non-dual gear printer on the market (maybe there’s another one I don’t know about).

I really tried to question myself and was open to all ideas about what a dual could look like - tried to adapt my thoughts to all the ideas how a dual gear could look like to the craziest interpretation just to come back to my first view, the A1 doesn’t have dual gears at all:

480

Well I note more than ones that Bambulab may is facing to much risk by Makerworld do on the way as models can be published. Private licenses are private, commercial licenses are commercial and there are companies that have a lot of time. And if they look for a victim, it might be Bambulab rather than their user.

But the good news: I don’t need an answer on that. I don’t even have to be right about it. I just need to keep an close eye on the health of key suppliers, so that my parts continue to fall from my printer.

This post is interesting, and I don’t need to comment on it but at least I note it as an another indication of the health of Bambulab’s progressive growth and the risks they are willing to take for an progressive growth:

By the way, the Marathon 3D Printer on the back I note since 4 month… already a few interessting Videos are online - I just wait what they are doing the next month/year.

481

When printer cost approaches $100, it flips a lot of assumptions on their head. For instance, at $100/printer, I maybe don’t care as much whether it has a quick change nozzle. If there’s a jam, I can just swap out the entire printer and replace it with a duplicate! Just sayin’. For instance, some people are spending $150 on amazon to upgrade their bambu to a quick change revo nozzle system. Actually, for this purpose, that would be kinda useless, because it doesn’t include a spare revo nozzle. An extra “spare” would cost in the range of $37-62, depending on whether it was brass of obxidian. That brings the effective upgrade cost to around $200.

So, which would you rather have? A $200 nozzle upgrade or two extra standalone printers that you can print to at the drop of a hat? From a productivity standpoint, it all depends, but I’m guessing the 2x printer configuration is likely more productive, because of the option to parallel print.

Or, if not that, then a single A1 mini with its quick change nozzle.

Either way.

Teaching Tech says he also follows this approach of having separate printers, each specialized to a specific purpose. He also has a printer dedicated just to flexible filaments, and I presume for the same reason as what I have outlined here.

482

In my case, the answer is 100%: “extra standalone printers” without even thinking for a second about.

The AMS showed me how advantageous it is if you don’t have to constantly load material - but I also quickly realized that it is even much more better to have the materials in different printers ready to go.

  1. Spare parts or parts exchange in order to identify the defective part in the printer next to it.
  2. The AMS cannot accommodate all filaments in terms of dimensions and materials.
  3. If one printer quits, one can still print.
  4. If something has to be done quickly and you have multiple printing tasks, two printers are always faster than one.

Ok, I’ve always had several printers - but then was the X1C coming and it printed so much that we didn’t need a second one. Now it’s just convenient to have several. A second X1C would be a bit hefty, but 300 USD for one more… gladly. Sorry, add another 100 USD to the 200 USD for a nozzle changing system and you already have a usable printer. Why should I even change nozzles? To save $100?

And when the X1C was introduced, there were also the slogan no more “bed slingers”. I wouldn’t say I’ll never buy a bed slinger again - but I’m staying away from it at the moment. In large format they have guides that are too cheap or are generally too expensive or in the case of the A1, it is built too heavily into the printer that you can no longer reach it. And why should I buy a Bed slinger at a cheap price when I can get a core XY for it?

The M5s are the standard printers for recurring tasks or larger quantities - all other printers have to cover a specific task for which they are better suited. For me, the X1C is the one for individual, non-repetitive tasks…

1 Like
483

SPECULATION ABOUT BIG PRINTERS

I’m still in the market for a very large printer. Orange Giga previously had favorable pricing, but it has since increased and Printing Nerd’s review made it seem terrible. 500x500x500 seems like it would be a good sweet spot. However, there are only two in that category: Comgrow T500 and RatRig. RatRig sounds like a lengthy assembly kit, even if everything goes perfectly. RatRig has an interesting design, but it’s not flying gantry. I wonder whether Voron will ever do a design as large as 500x500? I had hopes for the Comgrow T500, but there were only just a few reviews when it first came out, and then the buzz went almost completely silent. Generally, not a good sign. A number of reviews, including ones where the reviewers were bribed with free machines, hinted at an assortment of problems. That and the subsequent silence leads me to view it as a risky bet. I don’t get the sense that it’s a “It just works” printer. If Comgrow had fixed the earlier problems, I would have expected updated reviews, like Clough42 did regarding the Qidi Plus after his earlier reviews trashed it. Comgrow does sell some “pre-owned” units on ebay, but it doesn’t even bother to promise that they’re in excellent working order, even though they aren’t discounted by much. That’s in contrast to other 3d printer makers, who do a full refurbishment and pretty much promise that they’re as good as new. Why doesn’t Comgrow do that? I don’t believe in the “lucky bag” model for printer purchases. The T500 weighs so much that I’d probably never be able to sell it to anyone who isn’t local because the shipping charge would be extreme. Somehow companies get much better shipping rates. Whether it’s great or a total dud, I’d probably be stuck with it until the bitter end. I wouldn’t mind if it’s great. I don’t know of any insurance against the total dud scenario. There might be DOA insurance, but I doubt there’s insurance against it being fundamentally bad. Amazon and aliexpress carry it, but at a higher price than ordering from Comgrow. To me that suggests it’s marked up to compensate for returns. Just a theory, but why else? Again, not exactly a vote of confidence. If it were great, maybe at least matterhackers would carry it or one of the other vendors that specializes in 3d printers. Why wouldn’t they?

Tronxy makes some large builds, but I remember earlier reviews on a number of their corexy models were so damning that I don’t think I could never feel comfortable ordering one.

I rather doubt Bambu’s unannounced XL printer will be as big as 500x500, if only because I don’t hear many people asking for something that big. However, since the Prusa XL is 360x360x360, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were at least that big, and probably at least a little bigger, unless it opts for a much lower price point instead. I haven’t heard even a rumor as to what size it might be. NBR had said it might release in November. Go figure as to whether that is still likely to be true, or even if it ever was.

Has anyone else here seen a large printer that caught their eye? Seems like there’s a bit of a hole in the market for large printers, and not many obviously good options at the moment. Perhaps none, or something close to that. Unless I’ve missed something? Large printers means large prints, which typically means long print times. It’s the perfect market for the next generation of even faster high speed printers. Or instead of FDM printers, is its future resin printers, since for those print time doesn’t have to be any longer?

484

I would imagine somewhere in the 350 cubed range.

They have to determine their likelihood of sales and how many people could physically fit a very large format printer reduces the bigger it gets.

In an ideal world, most would enjoy the freedom of such a large canvas as 500mm cubed, but, the reality is where do you place it. Most homes do not have a dedicated room where it can be placed, and most adult kids still won’t give up their room so daddy can have a printer (selfish kids).

Even with a 350mm cubed printer, the average desk size becomes a problem as you need space at the front and the back as well as the internal parts far exceeding the 256mm squared size on the current models.

The bigger the model, the less opportunity to sell it to the masses.

I almost bought an Orange giga, but, as my doctors didn’t think I would still be alive right now (I’m on borrowed time), I decided not to gamble on the waiting list. I don’t have kids so I had a couple of rooms suitably sized to dedicate to one. The original price was compelling, the reality of the printer has fallen far short of the promise though. Those lucky enough to get one that doesn’t suffer from the many issues it has, do swear by them. The rest swear at them.

My disabled body couldn’t cope with the large amount of hands on effort to set it up or to prove it to work constantly.

Fingers crossed I see the big format so long rumoured before I leave this world for the great 3D printing community in the sky.

1 Like
485

BL has also to consider the implications posed by Stratasys’ 2 IP infringement lawsuits against it, and whether launching a new (& larger) printer that could be viewed by both the court and the plaintiff as continuous and aggravated infringement, would not be deemed by BL as a to high risk to continue launching it,…at least not until a favorable court ruling is secured.

486

Unless thrown out, this case will take 4-5 years to go through the lower courts, the likely appeals and that is before either party hopes to get a state or federal Supreme Court involved.

BL can’t put their business on hold for that time and reasonable courts wouldn’t expect them to.

Stratasys could seek an injunction against sale, if they won that (unlikely) then BL would have to abide it.

Vexatious cases are high risk, this is a very vexatious case, unfortunately, they appear to have shopped for a jurisdiction (the notorious Texas one, I believe) that has turned these sort of cases into a business rather that justice.

1 Like
487

My estimate on the duration is also along 3 to 5 years until all procedural stages will be concluded… unless Stratasys’ lawyers manage to persuade the judge on the need for a speedy trial.

That depends on whether BL’s legal team advises it to continue with “business as usual” until a final ruling and what and how they assess BL’s chances of success to either convince the court to reject both claims (or just one of them), or to secure a ruling in its favor.

Any such injunction would be enforceable only in the US. The rest of the world (and us) won’t be concerned nor obligated to abide by it, at least in theory, as in practice things might get a bit dicey for BL in some areas of the world (i.e. the EU, as an example).

Indeed.

1 Like
489

it’s (allegedly) 10+ patents that Stratasys claims to have been infringed by BL. At least this is what I’ve gathered going briefly through the 2 lawsuit fillings with the court. Surprisingly low number, given that Stratasys holds (again, allegedly) more than 2500 patents on 3D printing alone, but I suppose their IP lawyers have chosen only those that could be easily sustained (I suppose with enough proof) before the court and they are confident allows them to win their case.
As I’ve already stated in another post, on another topic, personally I don’t have hands-on experience with IP law in the US, but based on what materials I’ve read on such matters and existing jurisprudence, it wouldn’t be surprising to see this taking longer than expected. Time (and the judge) wil tell.

490

Here’s the (almost) entire list of patents issued to Stratasys (it’s insanely long)

Things could get very complicated for either party during the court proceedings, as demonstrated by the defendant in this case :

There’s also the matter of Stratasys patents that might have expired… that Stratasys claims to have been infringed as well

491

As they have only just filled, it will likely take at least a year, likely two before it hits the courts due to the time it takes the courts to get to a case, plus discovery.

Then you have initial options, each side will want summary judgement, the judge will need weeks, likely months to determine the merits of those.

A summary judgement essentially means the judge decides if there is sufficient evidence to not require the full trial to determine guilt or insufficient evidence to warrant any trial going ahead.

The physical trial, where the jury sits and listens to the evidence (this rarely means facts) is relatively short. The time is all the things before, after, readying for appeals, rinse and repeat.

Also, this particular jurisdiction has turned the process into a wealth gaining business for the local residents and local lawyers, they are notorious for it.

Profiteering, real profiteering takes time to build up those billable hours for the lawyers and the expenses for the jurists.

493

Stratasys litigation history tells us (at least to me) that it goes after those competitors that menace their market share and revenues. While no one disputes thei initial contributions to the development of FDM printing, for the past 20 years or so, they have brought nothing (novel or noteworthy) to the 3D printing manufacturer world. All they did was sitting on their arses and collecting royalties and licensing fees, while, now and then, launching themselves into various IP related litigation to scare off any serious companies that might endanger their market share and revenues. There are a number of precedents Stratasys has set through litigation…
BL is not just a contender but also a serious menace to Stratasys products, especially through the X1 and P1 printer series. More and more SME as well as a number of important R&D specialized businesses, are moving to acquire X1Es and X1Cs for their development and testing needs, as the solutions offered by BL are more technically advanced and way more cost effective than the ones offered by Stratasys. Consequently, Stratasys uses whatever leverage it has to either dissuade BL from continuing its conquering march into the industrialized markets (US and abroad), and also is (in my opinion) seeking to secure either royalties/licensing fees from BL, or looking to get their share of BL pie… There might also be that Stratasys wants BL to go down, as a warning to any other 3D printer manufacturers out there, to not dare step out of yheir line, but that, again in my opinion, would be stupid and clearly irresponsible -business wise- as BL brings an innovative approach to 3D printing and makes 3d printing widely popular with private consumers… Time will tell what they’re really after.

494

Not really.

Magneto would be one. 400mm x 300mm extremely interesting. This is really an extremely interesting format - by far the most interesting format on the market! That attracts me far more than a 500 x 500 or a 400 x 400 format. But there is a problem with the sales channel. If I buy straight from China, I am the importer, which also brings obligations. If i can put it in a fireproof corner… but if I have to think about it at $2000… Abouve, 1500 USD I want the entire package out of the box. European dealer with import insurance in the event of damage to buildings (or at least that my insurance will cover it since I am not the importer), material profiles and so on.

Phrosen Arco - More of an X1C replacement than a large format. The proven and Lidar of X1 versus 44mm more? Well, someone is there when Bambulab throws off the track. Bambulab wouldn’t be the first to stop selling the good product so that they can sell the new meal - and with this marketing and way to go style of Bambulab - self-promotion of the Marketing department “new vision” by stoping the god products to get to new ones sold is likely. Somehow they prove more and more that they more intressted on new than on existing costumers… And even if Bambulab brings a printer that meets my needs, they will be busy with themself or others for a few other years anyway…

CR-30 Printmill or IdeaFormer IR3 - Well, interesting but I don’t want to print for 4 days anymore. The most promising concept to attack the Core XY wave and no one took the change.

Qidi Tech X-Max 3, Qidi would actually be a good choice but somehow they are always missing something so I finally don`t buy a Qidi. And somehow they always confirm that it was a good idea not to buy one…

K2 Plus Combo Throw the door against the printer three times while referring to Uncle Jessy. How he once slammed the door on the printer and it never fell into the hinges/Swivel joint… Somehow that shows that customers are still considered as “own censorship”… Well, take the customers who don’t know the difference between slamming a door or banging it into the hinges/swivel joint. The first reviews from the people who paid for the printer will certainly be funny :slight_smile: And Creality, once again: White is the ideal of beauty in China - when I see girl so pale, that’s what you look like here when you have a serious health problems. Sorry, but the first thought of my when I see people powdered white like that is cancer. In Europe, women buy tanning cream to emulate the Western ideal of beauty, in Asia they buy powder to whiten themselves until they look like carrying serious health problems…

And many bed slingers, of course I also looked at the T500 - how the first parts damaged the base plate. And 500 x 500 is a bit too big for me. 500 x 200 would then possibly work. And many others where the pressure plate is not properly supported for the weight. You just easily can see from the video, that they are simple just unfinished printers on the way.

The most interesting thing for me at the moment: Snapmaker J1 (IDEX) a length of 300mm, well thought out but the glass plate is annoying. Glass on 3D printers generally gives negative points - especially if the doors can only be opened 90° and especially if you still use glass on the printing plate - it is very precise but the adhesion problems annoy me even more.

495

Although I’m nowhere near as bothered by the lighting situation and the noise as this guy, in all other respects I think this guy gives a fairly objective critique of the X1C vis a vis the current market:

What I do takeaway from this is that if Bambu doesn’t do something soon to offer X1C upgrades which bring the X1C back to the cutting edge of the market, then
bambu will be pissing off its existing customer base and forcing them to look elsewhere. Even worse, if the cost of those up grades is at all high, then, sadly, it may well make more sense to just buy some other, new lower-cost printer which already has those upgrades fresh out of the box. That’s how I view the cost of upgrading the Prusa Mk3, and it’s why I never did. For the cost of the upgrade, I could buy two or more printers that in most respects would outperform it anyway.

It’s amazing but true that the market has evolved so quickly over just the last two years. Two years ago Bambu was the market disrupter, but now the X1C is the one that may get disrupted by a market where baseline quality has improved and simultaneously prices have dropped like a rock.

What’s the lesson? If you want to hold on to your customers, they need a constant drip-feed of tangible improvements. For instance, the A-series nozzles and hotends should already be offered as an upgrade to the X series. If you wait too long to offer upgrades, then eventually the machine simply becomes obsolete (defined as: it costs more to upgrade it than it does to just throw it away and replace it with a brand new shiny thing which offers all the new features available) and rather than upgrade people just buy something else, maybe from a different company entirely. Prusa used to offer that drip-feed of upgrades, but the pace slowed to the point where it waited too long and then lost a big chunk of its user base. I hope Bambu learns from that and doesn’t repeat the same mistake.

2 Likes
496

Tend to agree, the A series has been a distraction while X owners have been printing with the same gear jealously looking at quick-swap nozzles and reasonably reliable AMS Lite (sans enclosure) and dreaming. I think the next iteration will need to be a big deal otherwise it’ll flop, people get jaded quite quick these days. I’m not going to update unless its value-added and not a Beta level machine.

Creality-style releases aren’t the way forward, and I don’t need BIG dimensions, what would impress me is something that honestly does Plug’n’Play. Slap a spool of whatever filament (or brand), select the filament in any place and it populates the settings across printer/AMS/slicer, load the model 3mf, Print. The current workflow can be like a pigs breakfast at times and turns me off trying to do it the Bambu way, I dropped out of the RFID tag ecosystem as it is pointless, and keep my calibration settings backed up on a spreadsheet because I have lost them before.

My attention has been drifting outside the walls, I won’t stop using my current Bambus but may spend more time on the new shiny when/if I jump on board.

1 Like
497

Yup, to both of you and to your arguments. That’s exactly how many of us, if not most of the X1C owners, think and feel about Bambu’s apparent lack of interest and preoccupation for the improvement and further development of their flagship printer (the one that put Bambu’s name on the map), and you both have very well articulated those thoughts and feelings. :+1:

1 Like
498

Unfortunately, it’s not an academic issue. The possibility of rapid obsolesce is real. I just yesterday purchased my 5th printer. It was going to be an A1, but this particular issue is what pushed me to purchasing something else. And the irony is that my bias was toward remaining in the bambu camp. Well, I still am, because I still have my X1C, but I mean future purposes remaining in this camp also.

1 Like