a) P1P/S (optional enclosure) clone
b) AMS
c) 600mm/s speed
d) 300mm build size
e) NO AI
f) fully open source Klipper
On the internet I saw a user sliced Benchy printing in 17m at 0.25 layer and 10% infill. While the Bambu does it roughly similar time, that’s a special slice and not what you get if you drop the boat on the bed and push the slice button.
I haven’t backed this as the political situation makes me unwilling to use a US company such as kickstarter right now, but I am watching this campaign carefully. If it works as described, I am sure it will “pressure” Bambu to accelerate develooment of new, larger printer. There’s so much I want to do that doesn’t fit in 256mm.
I think we all all expected a larger X1 and we got the A1 instead. Understandable to go for the higher sales in the entry level, but I’d really like a larger X1.
However I feel the best thing about the X1 is the AI, which means you don’t need to calibrate filaments, and you can leave it unattended to print. This new printer not having an AI makes it much more similar to the P1P/S in my opinion, and it is not equivalent to an X-series.
I’d like at least a 300mm sized printer from Bambu. I think that market is a little more niche than some might consider. The 256mm size hits a sweet spot of size of bed vs space it takes up. I do think this printer looks cool, the Phrozen Arco, but it does fall a little short for me in that… well. I guess I’ve gotta admit, the product of Bambu’s I’m invested in is the ecosystem, not just the printer specifically. I like the whole pipeline, and it’s not something I see any other manufacture fully adapting. It’s one of the key components that I think competitors miss. They do in bits and pieces.
I have a Kobra 2 Max, so I’ve leaned into a lot of larger designs that fit bigger printers. It’s frustrating on Makerworld that it isn’t as easy to share those designs as normal stuff, because of the print profile system. It inherently pushes projects like that down, since Bambu doesn’t offer a larger format printer like that. The print profile system is one of the parts I really like though, and I want to be able to release those larger format designs like that, and not just have them lost to the raw files. There’s a number of my models that I don’t think people realize, there’s even larger variations of, but you’ve gotta find them in the raw files.
This is definitely the most BBL clone on the market. They literally took a BBL printer and matched every spec and unique features they could think of and improved it. The AMS clone sounds like its nearly identical with the cool exception of being able to use TPU. It has a filament buffer, hub compatibility, and 16 roll printing, seeming like they decoded it and copied it.
Is this a bad thing… not for us. Just brings more competition at lower prices, forces those involve to innovate or drop prices. However, there was one thing missing that is a large part of what made BBL printers so user friendly, the nozzle wiping. That simple feature just cleans up so many processes (bed leveling and printing). Its surprising they don’t have it. But being a Klipper printer that can be modified. Also odd they don’t have an off bed purging system for changing colors. That suggests to me they are purging into the purge line. Odd. However, it looks to have a filament cutter (although not advertised), and it looks very similar to the BBL method.
A couple of other direct copy attempts they made are following. They also seem to use a Prusa Slicer derivative and they’re also marketing a “print it yourself” enclosure.
Long story short… there hasn’t been a single entry that was any more direct of a clone on the market yet. BUT, the improvements to their AMS to include TPU, and a profile to work out PLA/PETG printing (with potential different materials) sound very interesting. Not to mention the 300mm size and open source Klipper for mod’ability. So, while its definitely a direct knock off, with its own identity, it may be a good push for the rest of the market, including BBL.
Update: I can no longer find anything about TPU compatibility with the AMS-type device. Disregard any mention of it, looks to have been a bait and switch.
Remains to be seen if BL gets the message and (finally) pulls its act together, in terms of innovation and improvements (that users keep asking for), software and hardware reliability and (most of all) after sales prompter customer support/services, without forgetting stoking on spare parts and better delivery times.
FWIW there’s nothing “special” about Bambu’s presliced Benchy. Sure, you wont get one in 17m if you use the slow/safe defaults for everything, but you can reproduce (or beat) it with just a handful of tweaks of the settings, with the standard slicer we’re all using. I would guess the same goes for this competitor - defaults need to be reliable, speed simply has to come second.
Anyway all competition is good. I like Bambu but I’m slightly worried about their unwillingness to improve the existing X1C, with firmware and software. We didn’t even get trivial stuff such as door sensor support yet. Not to mention they opted to limit the user friendly interface for fan control to X1E only - WTAF? Did they really think a dubious move like that would draw thousands of customers to the X1E or what?
Now three months have passed since, and there’s not a single trace AFAIK of any upcoming new firmware or even slicer version. It’s reassuring to know there will be Orca and the X1-plus if needed. I really hope I wont need the latter, but I’m not holding my breath right now. To sum it up, I really hope Bambu will earn my loyalty, but if they don’t, well, the half-life for it is only like half a year.
Except the entire motion system is a flying gantry fixed bed setup. This printer is a Voron 2.4 clone, Which has been around much longer then Bambu labs. Yes the Ams is a heavy look alike but the mmu has also been around a long time.
Yes, the Voron looks to have been a big influence on this printer, but my clone comment was more inline with the features that were pretty much directly knocked off. Its almost like they used the Bambu brochure to engineer it. But in all honesty, that is to be expected. If they didn’t have these features, people wouldn’t want it. The market has been changed.
Apart from AMS and it’s similarities due to the overall look, the 4 spools and the promise of using up to 4 units. In fact the Arco is probably the least like the X1/P1 when compared to the other current competition from Creality, Qidi, Flashforge etc.
Larger build volume for a start - 300 X 300
Completely different extruder and hotend design, not even close. More like nextruder.
Fixed bed, flying gantry. Again, couldn’t be any more different.
No purge bin.
HEPA filter with external duct.
And lastly, promise of open source klipper with actual encouragement to modify at leasure.
To say phrozen has pretty much copied Bambu Lab couldn’t be further from the truth.
Personally, I hope it succeeds.
This is what I see when I go through the Kickstarter
Chroma Kit
4 Roll single unit capability
4 unit capability
16 roll capability
Auto runout capability
Desiccant integrated
Load cell/strain gauge bed leveling
AI camera failure detection
Nozzle wiper
Refill spools
Print your own case (P1)
Unsure but I thought I saw a filament cutter in the tool-head as well, but can’t confirm.
So yeah, my initial thought was… Knock off. As you two complain that that is an unfair assessment, I see that might have been a little harsh. But lets be 100% honest, those features (listed above) would clearly make it the most Bambu like printer on the market still. However I will concede, its not as much as a direct knock off as I first thought.
Hard to call it a voron knock off if it’s better than a voron.
Voron, being a kit, is very good for education and learning, or those who are fully into open source, but it’s not a good printer. Voron costs more than a Prusa or Bambu, doesn’t print noticabley better, and completely lacks any kind of (edit: native) AI monitoring system or native AMS/MMU.
Voron is a open source project team Companies make kits based on their designs. It can print better and faster but that is up to the builder. They are Klipper based so AI monitoring is Native as any Klipper based machine, Also ERCF is designed for the voron/Klipper group. To say a Voron is not a good printer is a very big stretch as that is up to the builder if they source good components or cheap components.
AMS (chromakit) is the only comparative “knockoff”
Load cell was not introduced by Bambu
AI camera detection has been in Klipper for years not introduced by Bambu
nozzle wiper tho uncommon was not new
Refill spools have been a thing for Years also
Print your own case (well that ones been around since the start of reprap
Filament cutter i am unsure about.
Compared to a 300x300mm voron, it seems like a bargain. Flying gantry seems like the best overall approach. If I could be certain that they will deliver without gotcha’s, I’d order one. It just seems that so many companies fall on their face at launch, or soon after, and then take months to resolve the issues that crop up, that I’ll wait for the reviews and decide after it’s well vetted.
The market is big enough to support a number of good companies with good products, so I wish them well.
No dispute Bambu wasn’t first to develop these things, but they were the first manufacturer to use most of these things (and definitely the first to use all of them). Equally, the option to use most of these features have been out there for any manufacturer for years and years, but no one did it… largely. The private community has been building this stuff into their machines and honing them, so I’d say any manufacturer could have done it… but again, they didn’t. Phrozen clearly saw the Bambu machines and decided they needed to copy many things.
Is that a bad thing… not really. As Phrozen stated in a recent interview, they had a printer ready for production when the X1C come out. And the X1C caused them to pivot and adapt to what the community wanted. That meant they scrubbed the release and went back to the drawing board (per Phrozen’s CEO) spending 2 more years playing catch up. While I’m not a fan of taking a competitor’s spec sheet and making it your own, I absolutely loved his honesty on how this machine came about, even if he didn’t mention Bambu by name (which is understandable).
Rant over… However, I do wish that EVERY printer came with some things Bambu made popular. A purge bucket, filament cutter, nozzle wiper, and a nozzle based bed leveling sensor which doubles as an auto Z height enabler. These are just the basic things that make the user experience better. Definitely not sexy features, but these features help to make things seamless. Seeing manufacturers constantly asking users to pull filament out of the hot end and cut it just seems behind the times. Pulling nuggets and strings off the nozzle as it drips from the hot end also feels very Ender 3’ish.
Even if you do copy things like this, there will be things that differentiate one brand from another. Manufacturers still need to do the software correctly, for example no G420’s before G28s (causes bed leveling data to be deleted, and need leveling every print, I believe the FlashForge did this at release), or a finish G-code that leaves the hot-end over the print (Peopoly). Or even bed leveling at high nozzle temps, causing the hot end to drip filament all over the place (MANY MANY printers). Some things just shouldn’t be a problem at this stage.
Sorry for the off topic rant about other manufacturer shortcomings.