Banding / Ringing type artifacts?

Bambu Lab X1 Series Bambu Lab X1C
41

Well here’s a twist, after numerous rod cleanings and re-calibrations with no real effect I did one last go and here are the results.
As you can see I have done the test print provided by Sticks with standard settings using Esun PLA.
The banding has 99% gone on the X axis and 100% gone on the Y axis of the squares and is only just visible on the circulars, but all the way around. which may indicate a software/slicer issue!!!

I would say I almost poured the IPA on to the rods whilst sliding them and repeated this 2-3 times. Idid get some blackening of the lint free cloth but that may be more to do with the belts than the rods being dirty!

At this point I would have to say I am a fair bit relieved as I was about to strip it all dow to return but now I think I will give it some more time!!

Would be interested to hear how the rest of you get on, remember you will literally have to soak the rods in IPA ( using an absorbent cloth under to save the bed and head!!!

Good luck

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2 Likes
42

k.dalby

Hi Sticks
I think that everyone should do the same model not their own versions and formats as that will not give the constancy of the check it we all do our own thing!! Or maybe I am wrong?

I agree, we just need to decide what that same model is.

Now if someone can design the identical match on other than Fusion 360 to remove the CAD as suspect, and import a file into BS as a .step, .stl, .3mf, or other formats as a comparison on their printer that will answer the question of if it is a file source and slicing issue, or a printer issue.

Edited to add I just saw your test print and your ring still has the vertical ringing. Is that better than before you cleaned? Also try just printing the 90mm square rotated on the X/Y axis and see if it shows up there as well. My 40mm square barely had it, but the 90 there was no question.

However…I did come across another thread where someone was having print issues and found that they had slop in their Y axis - which I have as well - and the BL tech support solution was to place some PTFE tape in a .3mm thick layer on the inner shell of the extruder housing as a shim for the carbon rod bearing.

https://forum.bambulab.com/t/extruder-has-play-in-y-axis/2651/4

Now one person said it helped theirs, but the OP had another problem causing print problems and could not tell how much of a fix it was.

As fast as that thing moves, even though it is stupid light, I can see where that could become an issue with print quality with longer distances to accelerate and decelerate if it is moving on XY at the same time. It should also be overshooting corners on at least 1 axis.

Is this a real problem or just tolerance for movement I don’t know. Everything wears, and we have plastic riding on carbon fiber, not rollers like every other printer made. All of us are having this “ringing artifact” come up after having some hours on the printer, and some infills on large prints are pretty violent - if any of you printed the Christmas Cabin that BL sent out.

I’ll be going after my motherboard cooling fan today and also install the TL smoothers on the X and Y then reprint the 90mm test again. Then I’ll pull my print head apart and install the tape and see if that cures it.

43

In Fusion360, when you export the solid body to mesh you can modify the resolution of the mesh in the little popup/flyout under the custom/refinement dropdown menu.

Which term it uses in the menu depends on the version you’re currently using or the file type. I’m not 100% sure on this though.

The finer the mesh, the smoother the circles!

Hope this helps you out!

44

Hi mate,
As I have said previously it would be great if we could get BL to provide a model that they would accept that would rule out step/stl/3mf etc and or cad as the culprit. But I guess they won’t be in rush to remove things to blame that quick!!!

Regarding the Ring print, yes you are correct in that the banding is still there but it is nowhere near as defined as it was before the latest round of cleaning!!

I did print the smaller square at 90deg offset from the larger one and there was none to see on the big one and just a shadow of the ringing towards the corner of the smaller one. To be honest if I had prints coming out like the squares at the start I would not have raised such a stink already!!!

I will pursue the ribbing on the ring print and try to get BL to provide me a test model for that not just the G-Code!!!

I will be watching to see how you get on with your MB Fan and the smoothers. As I have no issue with the Y axis ( ring print aside) I will leave the head alone and hopefully BL will come up with an answer!!

Cheers

45

RE the wearing matter I brought up - no lubrication. I am trying to remember from my target archery days when we were using CF arrows, we had something that we would coat the shafts with to make removal from some target backstop media easier. It acted as a lube and bond breaker (200fps to 0fps in 4 inches is a lot of friction and the heat generated would actually bond the arrow with the backstop media).

I want to say it was rosin that bowlers used.

1 Like
46

For your info, here is the Step file I received from BL Support for testing a ring print. Just doing mine now.
Cheers
Damn, this forum will not allow uploading of Step files. I will put it on Facebook and put the link here:

https://www.facebook.com/download/722531356097085/Bridge.step?av=100000501332686&eav=Afa0orGHHYNXxbbG8_r3Ps2kE8HoEyaafmo8geAzsgr_WchsQUHipup4dRRtpW3CXrw&paipv=0&hash=AcqRm8Erlc0UrGueals&cft[0]=AZXZR5HL1DLs8q62tdBtEwPhr87tLSmcoWwT30JVZidsl7RKSqfIK0B41z2U87y48Txf-PYJwg2FhvlDFeafLqWlMfTWsJGL4BtapXdOvWH3uVIefds9dtHbDZ4KOmbB3530_elH3cbGxQMWkKmKqHQvlsrBNMxTwIaQuZRdxovYmQ&tn=H-R

2 Likes
47

Damn. I don’t Facebook, tweet, twat, chirp, tok, or instadumb.

PM inbound after a bit.

1 Like
48

Hell will freeze over before I have a facebook account. Facebook’s only interest being violating your privacy you can do almost nothing on facebook without being logged into an account to help their tracking.

1 Like
49

Well you probably won’t like this theory.

The carbon rod bearings in the head being lose lets the nozzle move in the Y axis.

All the ringing you are complaining about is the nozzle wobbling in the Y axis while travelling in the X.

Maybe the head is just ‘rattling’ in the bearings or maybe one or both of the bearings are sort of juddering during X travel which vibrates the nozzle in the Y axis. Fiddling about and cleaning the rods making a difference might be an indication of this.

I’m trying to think of a good way to measure the slack which people could use for comparison and so far coming up empty.

1 Like
50

Damn, this forum will not allow uploading of Step files. I will put it on Facebook and put the link here:

Facebook for storing 3D files ?

No ??

1 Like
51

I saw a video that shows a test with sonic pad on Ender3 the results are not as convincing as the Carbon especially at high speed.

52

I thought about that too… though the ones doing th fix for y wobble did not notice improvement regarding the ringing… also the solution is not very nice and requires complete hotend disassembly which I would like to prevent. Though it would be interesting to see if it may be the cause of the ringing.

53

I was going to post it on Thingiverse, but this is a BL file, and would need their permission to do so.

I think I might be able to put it on a Google Drive, but there is still that whole “Property/Permissions” issue.

If we could get someone from BL Forum admin to post it, or even BL Tech Support to post it here, then that would be what we need.

froboz
All the ringing you are complaining about is the nozzle wobbling in the Y axis while travelling in the X

That is my thoughts on this also. I have not looked at the bearings on the X axis, those are steel rods so I would presume that the linear bearings are something more than just a plastic shell again.

This is going to suck if the BL printers have a ideal print quality life of only 50 hours, then declines to mediocre. Still can’t beat the speed though.

[Ortesse](Profile - Ortesse - Bambu Lab Community Forum)

I saw a video that shows a test with sonic pad on Ender3 the results are not as convincing as the Carbon especially at high speed.

All the other Cartesian printers out there have way too much mass to match the speed of the BL. Even the ones with the bed as the Z axis and the X/Y fixed to the top are all still some sort of metal carriages and rollers. Just the extruder head alone is probably 1/3 the mass of the others at least.

I’ve got the Sonic Pad for my Ender 5pro and it has doubled the speed and increased the quality. It has been consigned to prints that are either in conjunction with the X1C or I am not not concerned with time as it is still a freaking turtle compared to the X1C.

FL Sun is the only other one that I know of that has incorporated the carbon rod idea, but it still has a lot of mass on the rest of the assembly for X/Y/Z.

If the excess movement on the rods is indeed the source of the problem, hopefully at least BL may incorporate some sort of better linear bearing or replaceable one in future generations of printer. We are on Gen 2 now IIRC - something about the part cooling fan being screwed on?

For now, lets focus on getting test prints done and see just how wide spread this issue is and hope that BL tech support gets involved in this.

1 Like
54

Permission to post has been sought and waiting on a reply. :crossed_fingers:

UPDATE: Permission to use the file has been approved.

1 Like
55

Fi you try to by renaming the file ?
=> myfile.gcode => mygile.gcode.png

56

Cheers for that DzzD and I tried it but as it could not tell the size of the file it still would not accept it!!!

57

Hi mate, how do you do this conversion??
Thanks

58

Anyone seen this YouTube video? certainly raises some interesting points!!!

59

OK, so TL smoothers = bad. It does not like it at all. Could be that the pin outs are different, but I don’t know which of the 4 wires to swap around. That is outside my scope of knowledge on how s**t works. I knew it once I think a year and a half ago, but I have slept, gotten Covid twice, and took a few hits to the head since then.

If someone want’s to figure that out I can try again.

I am annoyed that I had to breach the " VOID" sticker to replace the failed CPU fan.

Hard call on the slop in the Y axis. With the printer on and the motors locked, it takes a fair amount of force to move it and you can and will get movement in X and Y.

2 Likes
60

The artifact he is tolding about is exacly the one I have opened a post about :

Unfortunatly seems that all my screenshot & pictures are gone…

I was pointing the problem of light-angled appearence of Bambulab prints