Interesting thread… I just printed half a dozen plate filling parts for an enclosure on an X1C in PETG and had zero warping issues. Here’s what a part looked like:
very thin walls except for the lips (which are 20mm tall and 2mm thick)
only one vertical box wall
ribs for strength
no brim or mouse ears
California Filaments PETG
Smooth PEI plate (bambu hot plate)
total filament weight of 127g vs. 374 (33%)
I didn’t do anything special in the settings WRT temperature, cooling, etc. I kept the printer fully closed.
What’s interesting to me is that this print isn’t that different from yours which means that the changes required to avoid warping may not be very significant.
NB: I wonder whether Bambu filaments are somewhat optimized for speed at the expense of “engineering qualities”…
Already sees the first differences to normal objects. The corners are filled in and the fillings have slopes, the entire object is studded with struts.
But I will also try it out.
However, with certain requirements for stability and impact resistance as well as break resistance, we don’t get very far with 1 or 2 walls. At least with PLA, you then very quickly have a hole in the housing.
Since I am currently printing the Bambulab Christmas House 2022: e.g. the base plate there is not warp-free either.
But a good approach and definitely worth experimenting with.
Just to be specific: you’re finding that the vertical indentations in the walls in your model allow the wall to flex and thereby dissipate the tension without having the bottom warp and lift off the bed?
I don’t think you’ve posted in this thread before… If you would like input I’m afraid you need to provide more details…
Well, I´ve the same problem - and I can´t change the retangular design of my object.
I already did a lot of variations in temperatures for my object which I want to print with ASA.
No success.
It sticks heavily on the engineering plate and warps already on printing - which is not really good visible during the print, as the plate is lifted.
I presume the reason is that the object is cooler in the middle of the print.
Interesting is the fact that the height of the object makes no difference for the amount of warping - Is the object 50mm high it´s about 1,5mm, is it 200mm heigh it´s the same.
Is the object 10mm high - I´ve no warping.
It makes no difference to preheat the chamber - my chamber is shown with approximatly 36degree
It makes no difference to lift the bed temperature from 90 to 100 or more degree
It makes no difference to lift the print head temperature
It makes no differnce to lift both temperatures.
I suppose a higher room temperature might improve this issue- but I don’t see a way to do it in a simple way.
(However, what I have also noticed - the temperatures reported by the printer for the print bed and print room are about 4deg lower as I measure with a measuring gun and a temperature probe on a multimeter.)
Probably a second solution could be a different, not flexible printplate (with the hope that the print sticks well on this plate).
I would give this a chance but I didn´t found any non flexible printplates for the Bambu.
Probably someone has already seen such a plate?
there is an extra thread about the print bed, where it is about the fact that the print beds are often not straight but slightly curved. Solutions are also discussed there. Apparently it also works to use a glass plate if it has magnetic stickers on the underside. There are several variations to read about there.
I print similar sized objects on a CR-20 Pro also on glass and always successfully. There is hardly any distortion, although I am not quite sure whether glass also warps a little when heated due to the stresses. However, in the open printers of this type we have enough space to fix glass plates on the print beds with strong clamps. The results of these prints (>18cmx18cm) are always better than with flexible plates. If you use normal flexible printing plates on these printers like the Cr-20 or Ender, you get exactly the same problems.
Would be nice if you could post some pics of what happens and also info on how you print. I assume you’ve read Large ASA prints warping which has lots of info and musings.
I can relate (Excellent First Layer Adhesion - Now I just need bigger magnets). I tried a few different types of build plate clips on the ends, reduced my infill and turned off the chamber fan all of which helped solve the build plate lifting from bed. Interestingly I saw this issue with both PETG and PC which caught me by surprise as Ive never had issues in the past with this model when printing with PETG on my MK3. However as Roseanne Roseannadanna always use to say “It just goes to show … its always something”
When printing large PC prints there is nothing like having a heated chamber, especially when you cannot solve the warping issues with design changes. I’m hoping Bambulab creates an upgrade kit for the X1C that includes the X1E heated chamber solution.
Thanks,
I found this thread after I started my own tests And I did my tests with nearly the same objects like 3dsufr,. and: with exaktly the same resuls … exaktly the same results.
The printer I used before was a Multec M200 and I can confirm your own experience: I used FR4 (3mm thick) and glas as printbeds and had nearly no warping.
Seems I´ve to try it with a custom made printbed, I didn´t find any “readytouse” one in the web.
Regards Christian
Hi pluckmyduck, did this too, a test with petg is just running. I think one problem is the flexible plate and the other is the tempertaure in the housing. Probably a higher temperature in the printing room would reduce the problem, the temperature difference between the first layer and the 60th laer is too high.
I did a test by reducing the bed temperature from 90 (first layer) to 70 degree (following layers) , and 90 to 45 … the result was massive warping and cracks in the middle of the part
@3dsurfr - I did the same tests like you. With the same results. Think you orientated your prints also cross i the middle of the plate (from left to righ)?
I´ll hadn´t this problems oan my old Multec M200. Here I used a strong (3mm) FR4 or a las bed. As ist is difficult to build a custom made glasbed for the P1 I will try to make a FR4 bed and look what will happen.
Regards Christian
Test with PETG is just finished, I “tore” it off the plate right after the end of the print.
The result is much better … However, with the original Bambu settings I get a warning message before printing starts: “the current hot bed temperature is relatively high …”.
Engineering plate, Bambu PETG, original settings- @KanneKaffe@3dsurfr@pluckmyduck
Your results pretty much what I expect and have experienced. Interesting to see the version where you drop down to a low temp. This had been on my list of things to try.
Interesting results, thanks for posting! I have a couple of questions:
how much did the straight line without base warp?
how did the 4th model where the wall thickens and one side stays straight fare?
did the base on the rear 4 models help or make things worse?
The whole shrinking and resulting warping are a bit of a mystery to me in that I don’t really understand the directions of stress. From @dragu’s results it seems that the damaging shrinkage is primarily horizontal. E.g. a layer line is laid down to be 10cm long and then as it cools it shrinks to be a tad shorter. That then tries to compress the line below it, that has already done some of the shrinking. With the vertical features added to the wall the shrinkage can be accommodated by having these features stretch a bit.
There must be vertical shrinkage too but maybe that is more uniform and not so damaging. In the horizontal direction, when the top layer cools it will pull on the layers below it that have already shrunk somewhat. In the vertical direction, the top layer just shrinks a bit but there’s nothing to pull against.
What sometimes works for my enclosed P1P (also the back is enclosed) is to preheat the printer for about 1/2 hour. Set your buildplate to the printable temperature and let it go. But keep an eye on it while preheating, it will turn off after some minutes. This way you prevent most of the temperaturedifferences and by closing your backplate, you keep the temp. in and draft out. I use to print even large ABS(+) prints this way. With a “cold” printer, large ABS-prints are almost doomed to warping, while preheating gives me good results.
Hi, tried this too, but witout a difference. @3dsurfr@pluckmyduck -
I tried a print with a 3mm FR4 plate - a littlebit better but difficult to handle (cause of the thickness) -
As I saw in the pictures of @dragu he used a different build plate like me (he used the high temperature smooth pei plate) I ordered it - but the result was not better.
I didn´t find his tipps and pictures anymore, but I´m quiete shure I had the same temperatures etc. like him.
I have the same experience of warping on a P1S with ABS and ASA. My results from printing a wall are very similar to those of user_1398423365. The warping occurs during cooling. It is not a bed adhesion issue or a plate lift off issue. So it is not like a sharp corner curling upwards during printing as a result of poor adhesion. The warping actually occurs as the plate cools below about 70 degrees although I suspect that the issue begins during printing. As the part cools, the part tears itself away from the brim and the brim stays attached to the plate. I also have a FlashForge Creator Pro (yes, it is 8 years old but it still works). I have no warping issues on the FF with the same part or other, much larger parts. The differences that I think are important are (1) the chamber of the FF is cooler (it is not fully enclosed) so the bulk of the part is at about 50 deg C, not 70 like on the P1S (2) the temperature in the chamber is far more uniform (there is a lot of circulation space as well as the hole at the back). My tests also lead me to believe that it is not fundamentally due to the number of perimeter walls, number of top or bottom layers, the density or type of infill, whether or not a raft is used, whether a glass plate or PEI is used, the temperature of the plate or the temperature of the nozzle, the speed of the print. even though all of these things do have some influence. My solution, after 2 weeks of failure, is to return the printer and buy a second FF. That way, I get the same throughput and zero hassle. Unless someone can find me a solution in the next few days. Please!
On other printers I have always used glass and staples on the edges that really hold the glass plate in place. That has always worked well. If warping then still occurs, then it is largely due to the material, I guess you could say that. But here, unfortunately, the printing plate is not stable and also not properly fixed. The normal thin metal plates already warp significantly when heated, by bulging. Put a glass plate on the magnetic bed and then on top of that the normal building plate and heat everything up to 80°C. I tried this after removing the Cool Plate sticker. Material tension also makes the build plates pull up from the magnetic bed at the edges. You will notice it when you remove it if you pay attention to the fact that the building plate can be pulled out very easily along with a large print object.
But this is not a problem with the Bambulab printers per se, with other printers there were these problems also with flexible printing plates. That’s why I said goodbye to it very quickly when I saw it and then only printed on glass.
I printed two parts with many walls on the Cool-Plate, not very big parts, but see for yourself what happened. One part is a lid and should sit flush on the other part. The shape is similar to an eggshell, so it should be stable. For me, the only conclusion is that the print support is crooked. Or the material is lifting off the print base due to tension.
For such reasons, I use glass with 3dLac for spraying and also work with print bed temperatures around 70°C (sometimes even more)) so that the print sticks to the end of print. But I still don’t have a solution for the X1C.
And I did my tests with nearly the same objects like 3dsufr,. and: with exaktly the same resuls … exaktly the same results.
