Stefan from CNC kitchen is nice but will never lead me to a purchase decision. I usually skip large parts of the video - but certainly good work (But I only had him on screen a handful of times).
You won’t get strong reviews until at least 12 months after the first sale. Those who take things apart run their own printing farms, own products or have already received their own printers through CE approval. They are German as well, as CNC Kitchen, but do not post in English or they post in English but all strong reviews have one thing in them: It’s something that they just do alongside, if they really have something to say and also bought the printer to make money with the Printer by printing. And despite all this, I have never experienced so many mostly positive surprises as with the X1C (but also with unexpected strong limitations) since my first purchase of a PC. Ok, the advantages of the X1C were really big so everything went a little faster
My first very sustainable business relationship arose from Aliexpress started in 2014. The first channel in YouTube partnership more than 10 years. My first operating system Dos 5.1. Based on that, it’s like the first PCs. First you had to buy every year (if not every 6 months otherwise you couldn’t even meet the requirements of the current software). Then you could take a PC for 2-3 years, and now you can operate the PC for 8 years and more. 3D-Printers, as long as you don’t just need color changes, we have now probably reached the 2-3 year cycle. This means that followers will become less important for 3D Printer reviews - I think listings in search engines will may become now significantly more important on this 3D printer matter. To getting containt listet takes 6-12 months but ends up in 2 or 3 more clicks.
Or simply sad - I have a lot of time now
@christian.woznik Of course I wouldn’t buy now. But I also already mentioned, X1C is the lowest price in the high-end range. Here comes one that has a printer on the market for USD 8500 per piece. Of course they’re not going on Kickstarter… There are resellers on there website which don’t really look like suppling hobbyists. There are listed resellers on there website who sell the very expensive stuff… and why they should the printers ship for free? Wonder why Bambulab has to ship so many A1s for free… During a review of the X1 (but I won’t search for the video again), something like this was said: There is nothing new about the X1, it just getting affordable. Don’t think that the upper price segment will sleep for another 3 years as well… My first Privat PC 3500 USD, my first private printer a 24 needles with inked robbon on continuous paper for 1800 USD. The 2000 USD market is also quite big.
I am at the point where I need a 2nd X1 printer and had been waiting for an XL version but I am at the point I cant wait any longer. However if the X1E is due to be released in the next 2 months to be ready by the Holidays I can get by with just the one X1C until then. Unsure if I need to extra features, but may as well as 2 different printers instead of 2 X1C and not have the ability to use the higher nozzle temp. Any news on slated release?
I didn’t understand if you needed a bigger volume or not.
If so, there is no clue (at the best of my knowledge) regarding the 2nd gen printer release date.
In any case, it depends if you can wait or not.
And if the current features are enough or not.
BTW, why you need 330ºC?
I’m just curious because it is not a typical maximum value for a hotend, and I’m still guessing the reasoning.
Competitor analysts are welcome, at least for us, the clients.
And whilst Prusa was thrown from the throne, they still have a lot of know-how and a more resilient structure than competitors.
I hope they come up with novel tech to make things interesting.
Id be interested to compare 2023 sales of the 2 companies. Im sure Prusas plan is to be the best and sell the most. For schools and businesses, good support and warranty is critical and this is why im critical of bambu. I love fair competition and im rooting for all companies to do well. If one dominates, stuff gets stagnant because only one company has the money to innovate. We saw how prusa handles the crown. Lets hope Bambu doesnt follow that path. Im not as trusting as most other daily forum users here.
The question is not whether you will have more than 5 competitors in this price segment, the question is when they will be there and how much of a lead they still have.
Once asked a Chinese manager whether the Chinese bonsai market is big - his answer: With a population of 1 billion, every market is big. According to my experience, when Chinese people see a market, there is coming more than one - To find the market, luckily they are very bad at. Which is god otherwise I would have a problem They are trained to follow and to perform but untrained to think between the lines or solving problems. But when it comes to following they are unbeatable.
Anyway, the Asian market is all about getting work for people (people, the biggest resource). In Switzerland, production is highly automated (people and space, the most limited resource) - it’s more of a problem to find the man who keeps the machines running. You even give the in-house electrician a 1000 USD Hilti hammer drill, because if the machine breaks down and the in-house eletrican will stops his work becouse of a broken machine, it will become expensive for the employer. The in-house electrician will no longer be able to find his own apartment for less than $2,000 per month, needs at least 1000 USD for food for his family - spends at least 800 USD for health care and so on… For an in-house electrician per hour you get a Chinese foreman for the whole month, This also applies to plumbers, roofers, carpenters, locksmiths, etc… If you need to repair a P1P for 5-6 hours, you can trash it and put in a new one. I just don’t know if this is true, but for a contractor in California, the normal price for a residential drain unclog is supposed to be $300 per job. Of course, in a system like this you have people who are happy to get $300 left over for a 3D-printer where they can enjoy life at least once which is also very, very important. And they right in getting angry when they don’t get something right in return or have not previously been properly informed about what they get.
So how much do you earn with an XL printer and how much should it cost - 2000 USD can be added quickly but is gone even faster…
Ok, this is for Chinese (or Polish, the difference is not very big) system manufacturers difficult to understand, but standstill is driving up the price structure of systems extremely high. Then the procurement costs are much more relative… 450 USD are quickly gone in 2-4 hours of work…
Luckily, when I needed support, I could identify the issue and provide the support team with facts, making the process swift.
For me, a 3D printer is not an appliance (every company sell it as one), so I expect the need to debug it from time to time.
But I am also surprised with the new printers, maximising the client number with a still underdeveloped support service. Expect them to know what they are doing.
Besides Prusa, Creality plays a critical role in the market for keeping the low cost. They also address one of the essential issues with Klipper.
Yet a market also needs a driver, which nowadays seems fast and “reliable” printers… or better, Vorons for nontech. I cannot see what breakthrough novelties they can come next… Like many of you, I would like some extra features, but they are not disruptive.
@Hank, what you describe is an example of the consequences of a global market and economy within countries with distinct socio-economic living standards. I also think competing is unfair when the rules are different for everyone. You mentioned China, but there are other countries in identical conditions. It is also noteworthy that commercial trade is generally balanced between countries or unions (EU); yet, it does not account for dimension and is locally unbalanced. It is nowadays war and exceeds 3D printing…
I would like a larger print volume, but since it has not arrived yet I am fine to buy another X1 since I need 2 machines now and can wait for the larger later. I am using these machines for Engineering R&D as well as for production parts that need to take some high ambient temps. So far I print mostly in PC since it can deal with the high temps I need and its much cheaper since its a 1kg spool and not .5kg than most of the other engineering grade materials. I don’t need the 330C nozzle yet, but since most of my parts are functional prototypes I may as well leave that option open should I need it instead of another 300c machine especially since it looks like the X1E is around the corner. Just woudl like to know if its a wait until the holidays or more Q1 or Q2 2024. If its 2024 I will just buy another X1C. So anyone have a projected ETA based on their research of leaked projects to release time?
@JayZayNo contradiction at all and 100% right - What’s new, technology has never been so attainable. 3D printing is still generally viewed as a toy, although the technology supports the industry at a very high level.
Yes, locally unbalanced everywhere you look. The war is terrible. And, some light, technology has never been more accessible. Not for everyone but never for so many. Not everywhere but to a lot of persons and the simplest idea can change a life forever. This technology also gives the young generation a chance to train their minds - as long as they don’t just see a 3D printer as a color-changing toy where you have to load the templates from the internet. Of course there will be only a few who take this opportunity, many will shy away from the effort but at least young people have an opportunity to get into something.
I only mentioned China because it fits in here, I have 32 other countries in which I trained people. Not as many as in China, but there were also countries with real slums that they didn’t want to show me, but I wanted to see it. I think 3D printing can change more than the first toy phone I owned, the Nokia 3210 - not now but that will come. Just like Herison Ford had to wait for the streets with his toy.
Finally, I understood the extruder temperature… I didn’t know polyphenylene!
But the Polyphthalamide carbon fibre blend is printable at 290ºC/300ºC.
It has a significant “improvement” of about 67% in the cost. I wasn’t expecting that much.
It also provides a good hint about the “XL” price tag. And also for a possible 2nd gen of the X1C or E, which will surely be higher.
I am please with my X1C in every way… if I went to buy it today, I would repurchase it.
And the first print view of the competitor described here - that’s how you do YouTube… Facts and the rest comes by itself. 0 wear on the slide rails? and easily accessible printhead, I’ll have to discuss that tomorrow…
