Super simple DIY garolite G10 build plate for X1C

Background: This thread actually starts on a different thread: Lightyear 3D Magnetic Build Plates for Bambu Lab Printers - #28 by NeverDie

However, because it evolved in a direction that was different from the topic of that thread, I’m continuing it here rather than there.

What’s new since then: I washed the G10 with Dawn while scrubbing it with a blue Scotch Brite, as suggested by others on that thread. Then I adhered adhered the G10 build plate directly to the heated bed using 5 small strips of foil tape.

Now for the good news:
Based on the previous experience, I planned to pre-heat the garolite at 90C for a half hour before starting a test print. However, I checked its temperature after 10 minutes, and it was already reading surprisingly close to 90C, so I started the print early. I hadn’t expected it would heat up as much as it did, or as quickly as it did. I’ll measure temperature sooner in the future to better pin down how long it actually takes to rise to the target temperature.

Anyway, I was absolutely amazed at just how well the first layer turned out. It printed perfectly and had flawless adhesion:

Unfortunately, the picture doesn’t show the detail, so you’ll just have to take my word for it. It’s beautiful.

Because of what happened in my earlier attempt, prior to scrubbing with Dawn using a blue Scotch-Brite (see prior thread for details), I was worried that the PETG maybe wouldn’t stick for the duration of the print, which is why I gave the model a 25mm brim. Had I known the first layer would turn out as it did, I maybe would have thrown caution to the wind and not bothered with any brim at all. Nonetheless, because of that prior episode, I’m approaching this topic with incremental conservatism, so I’ll cut back on the next print and see whether it continues to hold as well as it did on this print. The last thing I want to do is have the printer launch a blob of doom when I’m not looking and proceed to stuff the printhead with melted filament. So far that has never happened to me on my X1C, and I prefer to keep it that way. I’ll lower my guard later, after I’ve gained enough experience with this garolite build plate to have reasonable confidence it won’t happen.

Worthy of note: the model I printed had a lot of layer shifting going on. The reason is that the 5 pieces of tape I used to hold down the garolite to the heated bed were on just 3 sides of the heated bed, rather than all four sides. I hadn’t taped the fourth side on this first print because I wasn’t sure it would be needed and because being in the back without much space behind it, that rear edge is quite simply trickier for my adult fingers to tape. As a consequence of that omission, the garolite shifted about during printing, resulting in the layer shifts. I suspect adding two pieces of tape to the rear edge may be enough to hold it in place. Surely some amount of tape will be enough, but I can only guess what the minimum amount might be.

A long-shot possibility:
For small enough prints, an alternative to tape–or perhaps a suplement to tape–might be holding down the build plate by putting some strong magnets on top of the garolite. However, at the moment that approach seems fraught with risk, and It would require some strategic placement to be 100% certain 1. they never are in the path of the nozzle as it does its travel moves and 2. never could be under any circumstances, including all possible error conditions. I don’t know enough about that to want to risk it, but if anyone here does have a complete enough understanding of that to make suggestions or recommendations, please do post.

A possible lesson learned:
I still spoofed the X1C by saying it was an engineering build plate–there’s no option at all for picking anything but a bambu lab’s build plate. I think next time I’ll tell the slicer it’s a textured plate, because this time, after having told the slicer it was an engineering plate, it went about its lidar assessment after printing the first layer, which is maybe (?) a total waste of time. Not sure whether the lidar is somehow tuned to the engineering plate and whether it would produce garbage results for anything else if it thinks its an engineering plate when, in fact, it isn’t. Anyone know?

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I got a larger 1mm thick garolite sheet and used a band saw to cut it exactly the same size as a cheap AliExpress smooth thin steel plate. I just stuck to one side of the plate with thin double sided tape.

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Thanks for your post.

How are you liking it?

Which double tape did you use?

If you’ve measured it: are you getting full temperature (whatever temperature you set in the slicer) on your garolite G10 build surface? How much lag/delay, if any, between the temperature reported by the bambulab software and what you measure as the temperature on the garolite?

I only use it for PA and PA-CF and for that it works awesome after sanding with 600 grit. When cool the prints just pop off.
I used 3m sign tape comes in 12" rolls but I got it from work so may not be freely available in small quantities. I think any good quality tape would be fine as long as you can cover the whole bed so there’s no gaps. You could probably use a magnetic sheet and stick the g10 straight to it instead of another plate and then this would in turn magnetise to the bed surface. The garolite is still reasonably flexible but I don’t know how hard it would be to get off magnet to magnet.
Sorry I haven’t done any temperature measurements, but I print PA-CF at 100c which is the max my P1P goes up to anyway. Normal PA can be printed at PLA print bed temperatures though.

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That’s great to hear! I was originally hoping to lay the groundwork for printing PA-CF, and that is what moved me to look into garolite. However, I’ve since changed my sites to PET-CF, which is allegedly easier to print, so maybe this is overkill for that.

Regardless, garolite seems interesting, and now I’m hooked.

For the cheap price G10 can be bought, it’s worth the try. Just take care of your lungs when cutting it. And sand the surface before using.

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This is indeed a fascinating topic. I have two broad categories of questions:

  1. How easily do the prints release from the plate? What’s left behind? Is the plate smooth after several prints?

I ask because I’m not clear as to the advantages of Garolite. So far all I’m seeing are some YouTube videos stating that is avoids warping?

Which leads me to my second question. Do we have proof that the following statement form Lightyears website is true? They also mention warping on Stock Bambu plates. I’ve tried to measure warping on my P1 and yes, a straight-edge with a light behind it will so through but we’re talking less than 0.1mm of warping over 200mm of bed, how can that possibly affect printing given the margin of error in the filament itself. I truly would like to hear opinions on this. But more so, I would like to see some before and after proof about some of these claims.

So far there is only one claim I’ve seen on this YouTube video that caught my attention. That being that PETG releases easily without the use of adhesive. The problem with this video is the usual YouTube BS, no data to back up the example and just 15seconds. I want to know, did he print this at 50C or 90C? Did he try another model that was thinner? The example he showed proved nothing but the claim, if true, would certainly gain my interest since I print a lot of PETG and model release with a smooth surface without adhesive, is my holy grail. So far what some of these manufactures call a smooth surface in Garolite is to me laughable. I have a fundamentally different view of what smooth actually is. Even my High-temp and engineering plate may be called smooth but my Specular PEA plate(shipped to me by mistake) produces mirror-like finish. That to me defines smooth. But unfortunately, it only works well with PLA, PETG and ughhh, PC, just stick to it like epoxy.

Forgive me for feeling this way but so far, the only real use-cases that appear to draw me in were for non-Bambu printers and non-heated plates.

New update:
I added a lot more foil tape to hopefully keep the garolite from sliding around then started another test print, this time with just a 5mm brim, as compared to 25mm brim in the earlier print. The extra tape, this time on all four sides, seems to have cured the layer shift problem experienced in the prior print.

The purge lines did have some failures, perhaps from running over the foil tape, but the rest of the print was unaffected by the tape and had no significant issues relating to garolite.

I set the heated bed temperature to 90C, and this time I measured the garolite surface temperature with an IR gun as the heated bed temperature was rising. I’m happy to report that the garolite surface temperature, as reported by my IR temperature gun, never lagged the heated bed’s temperature (as reported by the bambulab software) by more than about 10C. By the time the heated bed reached 90C, the garolite was more or less fully caught up within about 2 minutes, and it had closed most of the gap within the first 30 seconds of that 2 minutes. For my purposes, that’s not much of a lag. No need to pre-heat the garolite by having the entire printer steep for 30 minutes with the heated bed at 90C, as I had originally supposed.

By the way, what I so far like the best about garolite is that it seems to release both very easily and very cleanly after it has cooled down. At least so far: no mess and no fuss.

After faffing around with it, I think I’m sold on garolite enough to either order a proper build plate now or else make a proper build plate myself sometime down the road. Meanwhile, if I ever find myself in a jam when printing some sort of exotic filament (exotic to me, at least), then I can continue with this taping method as a bridge until either something better comes along or until the good stuff eventually arrives in the mail.

On this latest print I printed the object using a 5mm brim. If/when I run another print test, then next time I’ll do it with no brim. and see how that fares.

@Oilas In answer to your first questions, I did my test printing in PETG, and yes, after the build plate has cooled down, the garolite releases very easily and cleans off like a dream.

In regards to warping, my reading of the Lightyear quote you posted is that they’re referring to severe bed warping that might arise when printing a filament that can shrink a lot, like, say, nylon. On a thin bed, it may either 1. curl away from the bed, or 2. stay stuck but curl the entire bed. Obviously, neither is desirable. I think what Lightyear is claiming is that with their thicker bed, the print will stay stuck to the print bed during printing without bowing the print bed and yet still release with little effort after the print bed has cooled down.

Hi Olias,
G10 isn’t that smooth. It needs to be sanded to be really effective anyway. But at least with a BBL machine, you could fit a 3mm piece which may help with the print bed warp (mine has a 0.5mm dip in the middle) and the level sensor would still work fine, which was a problem with my Prusa Mk3s sensor.
I believe it’s biggest advantage is in printing PA. The parts really do just pop off after the G10 cools.
The G10 is very cheap if you’re willing to cut it to the bed shape, look for places that sell knife making materials, as they use it in the handles. My 300x300x1mm piece cost $10AU.
I’m currently on holiday but will do some tests when I return.

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@Olias I know exactly what you mean. That’s why I kludged together a quick and dirty garolite test drive to for sure answer the questions that mattered to me. I ordered the garolite that I did because I could get it in 2 days via Amazon Prime and get answers quickly, whereas all the professionally made boards that looked worthwhile had lead times of two or three weeks or possibly longer (since you never really know for sure until it gets delivered).

What I can’t know from the little testing I’ve done so far is how well the garolite holds up over time. For that I have to rely on what others have reported. In that regard, the sense I get from those reports is that it is certainly no worse than PEI, and possibly much, much better. The Lightyear reports have been somewhat conflicting though so I’m unsure about it in particular, though I can’t think of any reason why it would age any better or worse than any other garolite, unless perhaps they process it in some way beyond just cutting it and gluing it to a steel plate? Are all garolite boards, regardless of manufacture, essentially the same, or are there differences in the epoxy or some other factor that might make one board be of a better type than another? If anybody knows, please do post a comment…

@NeverDie Believe me brother, this is exactly the kind of direct empirical observation that makes this a community worth visiting. It’s much appreciated. :+1:

This thread has reinvigorated my interest in t Garolite.

Thanks for clarifying that. Have you tried sanding it and to what grit level did it require sanding. I’m also curious, why does it require sanding to bond? For me that is kind of opposite of why I would look at this material.

Here’s a list of what I’m seeking.

  1. PETG or PC easy release
  2. Specular smooth finish
  3. No need of glue as either a stiction source or release-liner

Now if I do purchase a Garolite sheet, I will probably go the route that @NeverDie went and that is to create a DIY version.

Here’s my thought process and I would invite comments.

  1. Custom cut a sheet and bond it to a cheap spring steel plate using thermal epoxy or thermal conductive glue. This is the stuff I used when thermally bonding thermistors to MOSFETs. I’ve never used it on this scale though and have doubts how evenly it will spread. Epoxys are very expensive but easier to apply with a squeegee.

  2. Polish the Garolite surface using wet-sanding, progressive grits until I finish it off with Jewelers rouge polishing compound to achieve a specular surface. Does anyone know if this is even possible with Garolite or will I defeat the whole point and create hyper-aggressive adhesion? Or will it just create a scratched surface with no hope of glossiness.

The holy grail of course is to have a surface that I could simply print to that would accommodate PETG and PC without any other prep and give me that specular finish I seek.

Here are examples of what I mean by specular finish. In this example, I used Bambu PLA Matte. Using Matte PLA is arguably the worst case scenario for achieving gloss but this example shows just how fare one can get a mirror finish using the right plate. Will Garolite achieve this if polished?

Left - PEO specular plate | Middle - Bambu Engineering Plate with hairspray | Bambu original black textured PEI plate for comparison

Note that the PEO plate cannot be used with PETG or PC without using some kind of glue as a prophylactic measure against hyper-aggressive bonding between the filament and the bed. Truth be told, using a glue defeats the whole point because any adhesives interfere with the gloss.

If you’re really after the best finish I would have thought glass, or a mirror?
The G10 I got had a kind of epoxy finish like mould release from the manufacture process. There was occasional issues with the first layer perimeter or brim lines curling up which subsequently ruined the print. I used 600 grit to get rid of the shine and it fixed the issue. I haven’t seen enough other G10 sheets to say they all have the shine that mine did. Like I said it was cheap. Maybe the lightyear plate surfaces are finished better before sale.

Well remember, I’m not just looking for the best finish but also one that does not require adhesive. I thought of experimenting with glass but the issue there is that I’d have to resort paper clips. Also, the last time I did a search, I wasn’t able to find a glass plate that conformed to the Bambu shape. I did manage to find one but it wasn’t a specular finish. It made me scratch my head as to what the advantage was.

Thanks for the additional data on the grit sandpaper.

This topic has given me the motivation to pursue this again. There isn’t a whole lot of risk here considering the price. I just ordered the G10 plates with some spring clips. The spring clips alone were almost $8 which puts the cost of the entire solution at $22. But if it performs, then it’s well worth the money. I don’t mind experimenting but it’s the buyer’s remorse when you buy something that doesn’t measure up toe the claims that I find painful.

It won’t arrive in time for me to look at before next weekend but if I don’t like the look of the surface, I’ll just send it back.

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I have seen people complain about sanding marks on the print after sanding the garolite. Maybe they used a grit that was too course, I don’t know.

What has been people’s experience in regards to that?

I would guess that if it’s super smooth, then the prints won’t stick. I say that because people are scrubbing their brand new garolite boards with a scotch brite to get the prints to stick. Maybe the prints stick for some other reason after scrubbing with the scotch brite, but I’d wager that they stick because the scratches give the print something to bite into, just as paint is better able to stick to a smooth surface more reliably if you scuff it up with sandpaper first.

That said, the only way to know for sure is to run a quick experiment to find out. At least so far, I’m not aware of anyone who has tried to answer this particular question.

Edit: That said, when I look at the garolite that I scrubbed with the blue scotch brite pad, I don’t see any scratches with the naked eye. Maybe that’s because my garolite is black, or maybe the scratches, if they are there, are too faint to be noticeable? If that’s the case, maybe they won’t telegraph through to the print, or be noticeable if they do. So, despite what I wrote just above, maybe there remains some good reason for hope in this regard.

@Olias Please do report back after you run your experiments and let us know what you learned. For all concerned, it would be good to know.

Well obviously I won’t know the answer to this until I conduct my experiments but the principle behind polishing anything is the same. You start out with a course grit to get down all the higher bumps and work your way up until you get to a polish which is essentially a slurry of find grit. This is how lenses used to be made from glass.

A while back I posted here on optically clear post-processing techniques. Although in that example my final coat was a clear coat acrylic paint, I would not have been able to get there without first polishing the surface. Here’s the wet-dry sandpaper kit I found that has all the grit values up to 600 grit. Then you probably have to go to the hardware store for the 1000, 1600 and 2000 grit before you get to the polishing stage. Note: There is a lot of labor involved here if you do this by hand which wet sandpaper, you have to but the results can be magnificent. It’s the same technique auto body paint shops use.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DTLDYZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

@NeverDie I’ve been on the hunt for a G10 option and just ordered one of the plates you linked. I’m going to try using some of this double sided tape and see how it goes. I’ll let you know in a couple of days how my tests go.

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I would test that tape out before you apply it. The foam often does not come off in one piece, as the man who’s had to razorblade off too much that stuff off of too many piece of plastic says. :grin:

I’m sure there does exist a VHB model number that will do great. The description in that amazon link does say “high temperature resistance,” but if it were me, I’d want to check the datasheet on that particular model of VHB tape (there’s a wide range of VHB variations and model numbers) to confirm that it will both meet your temperature requirements and stick together the two surface types you want to mate…

I look forward to hearing back from you!