Warped bed :( seems like a common QC issue

BL Support has been quoting four week wait times for at least four weeks now. Best case is that they are getting multiple deliveries of new beds, possibly in multiple regions, and will be shipping them out to impacted customers over the next several weeks. Worst case is that they aren’t really sure when the new beds will arrive and just keep telling everyone that it will be about four weeks, regardless of when tickets are submitted, because that is just far enough out to seem plausible and just close enough to keep us waiting patiently, i.e., buys them some additional time. Not a great approach, because eventually you either have the beds to ship or you don’t, and if you don’t there is now a large group of very upset customers that think you weren’t being honest with them.

We should know which case we’re dealing with pretty soon…

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Totally agree with above.
People that were quoted 4 weeks 4 weeks ago should be getting shipping info now.
I am beginning to smell the aroma of a furry rodent.

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Filed my issue on Feb 20th. Feb 24, support said it might take four weeks. Yesterday, I sent support a message in reaction to my issue being marked resolved. The response:

Hello,

Sorry for the late reply. The ticket is not closed.

The heatbed in overseas warehouses is out of stock, and we are shipping them from China to overseas warehouses, so we will be able to send a heatbed to you in early April.

I will update you as soon as the team has updated me with the tracking code.

Best regards,

Bambu Lab Customer Support

So I keep waiting.

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It’s totally possible that it’s not new bed… I’m doubtful that a new company like bambu can set up a new manufacturing process and qc process within few weeks, especially if they rely on other manufacturers.

I think theyre setting up a new qc process and have additional test measures to be able to send out flatter beds to those that create support tickets, and my guess is that all the failed beds goes back new shipping printers, assuming only a handful realize this is an issue and/or even create a ticket.

Given they haven’t halted shipping new printers seems to indicate they’re going to just solve escalated tickets, not through fundamentally changing the manufacturing process.

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LOL!
Now they wouldn’t do something like that now would they?

The good thing in all this is that they’re admitting now they have redesigned product coming.

Not to hammer a point I’ve made before but this stuff does take time and they’re reliant on others. I’m sure they are just as annoyed as we all are.

This is exactly why I still haven’t filed my claim, despite finding the problem in the first week of Feb. I’m limping along but it works.

Honestly, that is pretty unlikely a scenario. What you’re suggesting would cause such an uproar that it would sink the company. The principles of Bambu Labs are brilliant people, not idiots.

Again, I have to disagree, if they have changed the QC process, which they have stated, and is an obvious step, they must have implemented it on the production line first, then checking the ones needed for tickets.

Remember for all the ‘noise’ on here the total number of people with bad beds vs people with OK ones is fairly small. You’ve been here for a while, you’re followed the logic.

If you were running things (and you have made many thoughtful posts here) would you not handle the new product running out the door as a priority :wink: :grin: I know I would. I’m pretty sure they’re looking at the beds as a major step in production now.

IDK if you caught the posts here on the fact that most people have found the bed warp changed slowly for the people using low temp and faster and larger for people running high temp materials.

It’s just my opinion, but I think this all started because their QC process missed that. I think they checked the beds fine. And they checked the bed heater fine. They just didn’t bake the beds and re-check. That’s not surprising on a production line … It would add hours to their testing before shipping. :astonished: :upside_down_face:

Now, taking that one step further, if that is what happened and the core problem is it happens after heat soaking due to the plastic frame warping (from not being annealed after production) then it’s a lot easier to test on an assembled printer than on a loose bed being sent out as a replacement! (Please pardon the shout :innocent:) To properly test a replacement bed they would have to heat soak it first.

That would require setting up stations to run the beds in an insulated chamber or have a large heating chamber to heat them for hours.

This isn’t some easy to fix problem!! They’re engineers not magicians.

Don’t fall into the trap of allowing our shared frustration into believing the BL people are idiots. They want a fix probably more than us! :grin:

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I want to just say that I’m not at all frustrated with Bambu Lab. When I bought the X1C, I knew it was a new product by a new company, but decided that for me, because of the leap in technology they offered, it was worth it. I fully expect glitches and growing pains. They did say 4 weeks for my new bed and I got an update yesterday that they’ve shipped from China to overseas warehouses, so the US should have them to ship out in mid-April. Is it inconvenient, yes, but I believe that a year from now, Bambu Lab will have worked out a lot of their kinks and will be a much different company from a user experience.

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I don’t disagree at all, but that’s the only way I could see them meeting 4 weeks they provided 2-3 weeks ago. Note that Bambulab is still pushing out printers to customers knowing this issue, and those who received the printers raised concerns about warped beds, but I’m not seeing a significant uproar about it. I see a lot of people defending the company, saying it’s a new company.

What I’m saying is that if I were them (and if I really want to meet the 4-week “promise”), in parallel to redesigning the manufacturing process with factories (which could take months, as you previously mentioned), I would focus the 4 weeks on redesigning the QC process and getting beds that meet the criteria out to customers, and slowly communicate the improvements the company is making, and keep communicating that if a customer is impacted, reach out to support.
We know bambulab has continued to ship new printers, so we know they’re fine taking risks of shipping products with possible warped beds. Maybe a relatively small number of beds are impacted, or they’ve done the math of who’s going to be aware of this issue, but what we know is they continued to ship.

Also, let’s assume 60% of the beds they get from the manufacturers meet the criteria, but factories can’t manufacture more of the beds while working on redesigning the manufacturing process (assuming you need beds for both new printers and as replacements).
Bambulab now has to decide who gets the right beds, customers who have been vocal about this issue and have created customer support, to put it in the new printers who may or may not be aware of this issue, or both, risking shipping much fewer printers.

I’m not saying they do not care about the new customers, but I don’t see how they would make fundamental changes to the manufacturing process within the promised 4 weeks… Just being realistic about the timeline.

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You make a lot of great points actually. There is a massive amount of simping for the company in the comments (there was a guy called Peter above who exploded because he was so tired of the the cope and excuses people make for BL. seems like many still haven’t learned their lesson even after he blasted them :joy: )

Let me say this straight: in the amoral landscape of capitalism, companies are fine changing their targeted market strategies if one segment of the market seems too expensive to cater too. BL has shown that it has no incentive to run after people like us who want straight functional prints. Believe it or not, their printers with banana beds are perfectly fine for the Etsy crowd. Not for us. BL’s focus has shifted. You notice that with how they are calling most beds as “within spec”. We have bought into false advertising at this point and if we don’t create noise and raise chargeback pitchforks we are collectively screwed.

Again, as you rightfully noticed, why do they still continue to sell printers with banana beds? if they have corrected beds available why are we waiting on a delayed schedule?

Secondly, I will be requesting a refund myself this week. I am done waiting. I don’t care if they are “engineers, not magicians”. That is not my problem. If they don’t work with me, I will file for a chargeback.

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Again I agree with above.
Bambu are not my friends.
They have sold me a product for good money that is no good.

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It just doesn’t make sense to ship out bad beds and hope no one notices, especially at scale as it just exacerbates the problem. It would further clog up support (which they’ve publicly admitted they need to revamp), cost them sales as more and more people complained, cost them a bunch of money in chargebacks/returns, and cost much, much more overall than just fixing the root issue, which is bad production processes.

Except they didn’t make a 4 week promise. They told specific customers in private that they would begin shipping in about 4 weeks. And it seems like they are meeting that goal if people that complained early actually start getting their new beds soon. They told other customers in private they’d get their beds mid April and other customers at the end of April.

There was nothing to learn from Peter because of how he acted. He went crazy, threatened to “sue” multiple members of this forum for defamation/harassment (in multiple threads), insulted someone’s wife, and made repeated derogatory comments. I think he probably exploded on Bambu Lab because he’s got other issues going on in his life on top of his printer (which he essentially stole, after committing fraud). I can’t even imagine trying to deal with a person like that as a customer support rep. But they still offered him a refund, which he refused. Even after he got his money back through a chargeback, he was “worried” they would remotely brick his printer (which he originally claimed was junk, had a bent frame, couldn’t print anything straight, etc).

There is a big difference between “simping” and being a realist about the situation at hand. I don’t see anyone in this thread saying Bambu Lab is perfect and that they don’t need to fix this mistake. I do see plenty of people who understand that proper fixes take time and a solution wouldn’t come overnight. And most of those understanding people, including myself, have stated that our understanding isn’t infinite. If this drags on and flat beds aren’t produced in the near future for those who are having issues, our tone will change.

We have no idea what their production schedule is, how long these printers take to assemble, what 3rd party supplier makes what, what state of assembly the beds normally come in. For all we know, they had X many printers already partially assembled the last few weeks. They might have continued to ship printers with bad beds (which I doubt, but I could be wrong). Or they might have been able to catch these warped beds on a percentage of partially assembled printers mid-production process, and only ship out printers with flat beds. Obviously they are capable of shipping printers with good beds, as there are plenty of people who have them who aren’t just making parts for Etsy.

As you should, if you’re tired of waiting and your printer isn’t working as expected. But I haven’t seen one person who wasn’t offered a refund who had a warped bed and was unhappy. This isn’t me simping, this is me saying that since flat beds wont’t “magically engineer” themselves overnight, a refund for a product past the return window pretty good support given the circumstances. Plenty of shadier companies would leave you high and dry. So far, they appear to be trying to do the right thing, as quickly as they can.

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@tkk - I’m glad it was clear I wasn’t going after you in any way, just thoughtful discussion :wink: The following is a general post, less of a reply to you, my friend.

The following in NO way excuses or whitewashes BL’s response to this problem, but a look back may offer some insight into timing:

‘Fundamental changes in four weeks’ - If you look long term timeline this whole thing surfaced as an item before the end of 2022.

At this point BL was barely a company, just coming out of Kickstarter delivery. They were setting up a business, working out partners for parts and filament, as well as probably working 22 hour days to get the website, this forum as well as Discord, Facebook, Twitter etc handled while pumping out the Kickstarter orders. This does give them a bit of a pass on their initial response, it’s hard to go from zero to 10,000 in a business. Setting up a Support infrastructure is too.

Then reports started tricking in about a bed issue, just as they hit Chinese New Year, a mandatory forced holiday for all intent and purposes since none of their Chinese partners would be available.

I find the timing interesting. I’d love for any Kickstarter people (particularly ones that got Ver 1 machines) to weigh in as to their bed flatness. I bet the number of bad beds are few, they were hand produced. Not zero, but rare.

That would be about the time they would have gotten the beds for their first public run. Until then I think they were hand made internally or from a smaller supplier who would have taken extra care in making them.

So, they have been aware of the problem since quite early in 2023 but were unable to respond until late Jan, after the holiday.

They’ve had a lot of time to figure this out, but all the points I’ve made in several discussions about time to produce a fix still exist. It’s slow.

My problem isn’t the bed issue having happened. My problem isn’t the length of time to fix it. Both those things can be understood within the framework of manufacturing and hiring delays and the general slowness of a huge delivery system.

But what does fry my a$$ is the poor handling of the Support and the the stonewalling in responding to this issue.

Whomever is responsible for the public face of the company should be sent to the Salt Mines of Antares 3 with no parole. They do not know how to handle a worldwide public, they’ve been way to concerned about ‘Face’ or ‘CYA’ or ‘whatever’ instead of properly communicating.

The Blog post of Feb 23 was a start, but it’s been silence or smoke and mirrors ever since.

If they had been upfront and admitted the problem existed and kept us informed as to what was happening and why it happened they would have a lot less of their customers b*tching on the longest post on their forum while sharpening axes and pitchforks.

Look. I have repeatedly stated that I am a fan of BL. Let there be no doubt that I think they will come out of this and will become a real powerhouse. I also think they’re a great company in the making. One mistake doesn’t a bad person (or company) make. We’ve all made big mistakes.

But I will also forever remember that they have not been honest and straight with their customers, saying “Use the Support System we will help you” can also translate to “We wish to handle you each alone, no sense in becoming a pack”.

I don’t know if they realize that is how it sounds to some of us. “We will resolve your problem” is not the same as “Look we had this issue with the beds. Our co-manufacturer had this issue and now we need to make all new beds, we will fulfill replacement requests in ticket order. Love, BL”

Personally, I’m willing to wait for my new bed. I know they’re handling it. I just dislike their public handling of it and think they need to do better.

MUCH better.
{End Rant}

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A few days ago, without much hassle and without even asking for a new bed explicitly, they offered me to send out a new bed once they are available.
It took about 2 weeks, and they only asked for a logfile of the printer and a photo of the beds underside.
I am not sure what other customers have had a support experience, but mine was quite good, though a bit slow, but they neither tried to hide the problem or to make excuses.

But as with many parts of life, if you stay friendly, you often get treated friendly too. They are just people as well and still too small a company to be called mean corporate overlords yet :slight_smile:

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As a Tech of {many} years this is absolutely true. I have had to deal with many support people in my life and found that opening with a light joke can make their day and they will move heaven and earth for you after that.

That’s great they got you into the system.

This is an important point. They started their Kickstarter on June 1st and ended it June 30. By August 23rd, they shipped out 100% of the backers units, some 5600 printers. This tells me a huge chunk of these units had probably been slowly built in the months leading up to their launch (probably in house). After all, they had been building and testing these printers in their own mini farms for almost 2 years.

I don’t have an issue with support not knowing what’s going on with the beds, as I suspect the majority of their support staff is not only new, but getting bombarded by support questions from new users. This issue probably gets compounded by people sending in multiple tickets for the same issue when they don’t get a fast enough response.

This is not to say that support doesn’t need to get better, as it absolutely does need to get better and significantly faster. I’ve had good experiences with support, but I know others have not. Again, I’m just a realist and I know you can’t “magically engineer” well trained support staff overnight. It will take time for those agents to learn how to clear tickets faster, build out the support wiki, etc. I’m not sure if support is stonewalling, as I’d suspect most of them have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes with the print beds. I’d also guess that what’s going on behind the scenes changes at a pretty rapid pace.

But what blows me away, is that there isn’t one person whose only job is to gather info and provide updates on public platforms on a consistent basis. A lot of the ill will towards Bambu Lab from those with warped beds probably could have been avoided if there was consistent blog updates every week. Even just simple updates about what the status was and what the updated timeline was so people weren’t kept in the dark would have gone a long way. One person to pop onto the forums, the Facebook group, Discord, r/bambulab just to post regular updates to remind people that they do hear the complaints and they are working on them. This would presumably also give support staff something to share with customers who are seeking more info on the issue.

This isn’t a company run by 5 people who are overwhelmed. This is a company with a couple hundred employees at this point. A company that is selling thousands of printers and generating a significant amount of revenue. The fact that they haven’t hired an employee with experience on being a point person to offer clear, direct, and consistent public messaging on this issue was a pretty big mistake in mind. Had they done that, there would be a lot fewer people pissed off right now.

Hopefully they learn from these missteps, and continue to get better.

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I have to agree with this, but cultural differences might play a big part in this as well. They are an company based in china and the whole of asia has a very different approach accepting failures and being honest about them. Its about loosing their face if admitting they have failed or not understood something, and it took me quite a few of these incidents with asian colleagues to get a feeling when they truely understood or not, but they never said they did not.
I do not know if this is the case here, but it might offer a reason why we see support say the beds are “almost within spec” and not being open about the problem to the general public.

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Refund is the way tbh
If you scroll way up(a month or so ago) you’ll see my post about us returning both our x1cc for refunds because of this and a handful of other issues.
Ordered a voron & picked up a used Prusa Mini+ from FB marketplace and things have been a LOT less stressful around the workshop (60 hours on it with a bunch of spare stuff for $300 btw, at least the Bambu hype is putting everything on sale)

To many people this thing is alien tech & it’s easy to see why, it’s fast, it has a reliable ABL system that prints pretty first layers(even if bananad) + input shaping, a camera & other goodies built in all with an appliance type set-up and feel to it. Not all the advertised features work/work well, but the ones that do really shine.
Unfortunately, to those who need to hold their machines to a higher standard, it’s like putting lipstick on a pig.

It’s a closed source, mass manufactured, fully assembled voron for $1200, at a time where businesses globally are still struggling with post-Covid manufacturing/sourcing/shipping issues.They are absolutely using the cheapest components they deem acceptable, for a Chinese company that manufactures in China & who partner with Chinese filament companies, I assume they share component manufacturers with creality & such.
They do seem willing to swap out at least some of the super lower quality parts based on them changing the MC board fan to a brushless one after all the failures poured in, but a fan is a much cheaper & easier fix than warped heatbeds that are engineered/manufactured specifically for Bambulab. We’ll see how this progresses as customers who were promised flat beds start to receive them over the next week or so (unless everyone got shafted to mid April?)

I frequent the Reddit and the forum hoping that these are growing pains and not the standard for Bambu moving forward so we can potentially give them another go, Bambus AMS is incredible, just not incredible enough to make up for their drawbacks at the moment

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Sorry for asking, to much to read here so I may have lost trecking…
You use a GLASS BED inside the Bambu P1P / X1?
And that works?
And you fix it with clips?

There is a guy selling magnetic glass buildplates as a temp. fix for warped beds. Its called Goodplate. It is fixed with some clips to the heatbed, so you do loose a bit of printing area, but you can still use the normal Buildplates on top of it, the glass just is a much flatter surface then the metal bed, but it really is just a DIY fix, nothing professionally made.
But nothing would stop anyone from just placing a glass bed on top of the heatbed the same way and print directly on the glass.

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He stopped selling outside the EU though. Guess I gotta find another option. I waited too long.

You can build it yourself if you buy some magnetic foil and a float glass piece with the same size. Would also be cheaper I think.