Weird layer problem I haven't ever seen, please help

Hello, I’ve started to have that layer problems in the photos on last two days. I’ve been printing same parts for over a week now (without any problems).

But suddenly my print quality dropped significantly.

  • I haven’t changed my filament.
  • I haven’t changed any part.
  • Cleaned nozzle in every way.
  • Using PLA
  • Fresh filaments out of the box
  • 220/55 standart settings as in last two weeks.
  • 0.4 nozzle, 0.28 layer height
  • You can see other details about print settings in screenshots.

I have done a benchy after cleaning so it may hep to spot the problem. Also another tests are in screenshots.

I have seen some dust in my fans and I’ve sprayed it with compressed air. I thought maybe it was a heat problem.









Please help.

  1. What printer are you using?
  2. What filament brand?
  3. Did you tune your filament profile?
  4. Don’t assume that out of the box means dry, although PLA is not very moisture sensitive it is not immune either. To be certain, did you dry your filament and more importantly, weigh it before and after drying just to measure the amount of moisture you’ve removed? (weight is inaccurate if it’s a cardboard spool)

I’m seeing two problems to chase. The first is uneven layer adhesion. This could be due to many factors so I won’t go into all of them. The second is uneven filament cooling or feeding.

The second one is easier to test so I’ll cover that first. Create a simple cylinder primitive about 50mm wide by 50mm tall. Set the bottom layer to 1 and the top layer to zero. Then print it in vase mode. If you do not get pristine walls, then I would chase either a filament problem(try another brand or filament type).

If it’s a feed problem, try cleaning and lubricating your lead screws and pulley with a small amount of PTFE lubricant. Avoid over-lubricating as it can cause long-term issues. Grease tends to accumulate dust and contaminants, worsening the problem. Instead, use no more than 3 drops of Synthetic PTFE lubricant oil on each screw after thorough cleaning. Spread it evenly and avoid excess. Over-lubrication can lead to abrasive contaminants accumulating over time, defeating the purpose. Be careful to avoid getting lubricant on the pulley or belt. Bambu suggests lubricating pulleys only at the bottom, typically when squeaking occurs.

For Layer adhesion. Have you tried the following, one at a time?

  • Increase nozzle temp.
  • Change layer height to something else to see if it has an affect on the layer lines you are displaying.
  • Disabling or changing the part cooling fan settings.
  • Turn off your chamber fan or Aux cooling fan.
  • Ensure that you’re chamber isn’t too cool.(sub 25c)
4 Likes
  • Printer: P1S
  • Filament brand (Valment, a local brand) I’ve been using it for 20 rolls straight. Generally had not a major problem except 1 roll was clogging my nozzle always. Trashed it out and they have replaced it.
  • Tuning; I’m still kind of a newbie to 3D printing, couldn’t done much but, I’ve decreased the top speed to 240 mm/s and everything went well after that till now.
  • Drying; I havent done but if it was because of wet filament, shouldn’t it be seen on all of the print? This problem only is at the corners as you can see (also at the top). But I’ll do that as a general procedure when I get a filament dryer.

I’m printing the cylinder right now, will post results. After that I’ll get to the feeding problems if needed.

For Layer adhesion;

  • I’ve tried increasing the nozzle temp to 230. Didn’t change much as far as I can see.
  • Didn’t change layer height because I’ve printed exactly the same object with exact same setting really lots of times.
  • Didn’t change any fan settings because I’m scared about making things worse. I don’t know what’d effect which way. A couple information about that would be great!
  • Also didnt do anything about Aux fan.
  • I’m sure it’s more than 25 and less than 35. I think that’s the most ideal temp range.

Also, really thanks for detailed information. I hope I can solve this. It’s really bothering me and I can’t even find any source about this problem because I can’t even name what’s wrong.

IDK what we should’ve expected but I think it looks pretty smooth. So the filament has passed the test?




The clean vase mode cylinder primitive shows that this particular filament is likely not the direct issue, so that leaves us to pursue other factors such as the interior shape of the model.

Next try to perform the same test with a cube primitive since that now introduces corners into the problem. Do it twice, with and without vase mode. Without vase mode, also try printing a cube twice with 1 outer wall and then again with 5 outer walls. You’re looking for changes in shape and striping like you saw on your original model. What we are looking for that is if you use a smooth model like a cube and none of these artifacts are showing up, then we want to look at your internal cross section for interior artifacts that might give us a clue. If you can post a sliced model cross section screengrab, that might offer other clues.

Temp and Layer Heights

Since it’s a P1S, I’d rule out chamber temp as the least likely of problems.

To answer your earlier question about why the corners? That’s where nozzle flow can really be affected.

Picture in your minds eye that you are squeezing a ketchup bottle onto a plate and you’re being asked to draw circles with the ketchup stream. After you start getting the ketchup to flow, all you have to do is to keep a steady hand and make circles. Now try the same experiment but try to draw squares. As you come to the corners, it’s not so easy is it to keep the ketchup flowing smoothly? That’s the challenge in a nutshell with filament flow.

Changing the top speed won’t likely capture where the problem is. If you suspect that speed is the issue, then the quickest way to rule it out is to change the speed using the “Silent Mode” settings after the print has started. This will change “All” movements by 50%. If your problem is reduced or eliminated then yes, speed is a factor to be considered. Then you have to dig into what is happening to your filament flow as it relates to speed. If 50% Silent Mode has no affect, then you’ve successfully ruled out speed as a factor and now filament flow becomes a very big lead to the problem that has it’s solution elsewhere.

What troubles me in the photos supplied is that your getting this banding affect and at the very top layers your getting delamination. Just for giggles, I’d try stepping up the filament temp to 250c. There is no harm in doing so but it will ensure that a) your filament flow for PLA is at its lowest viscosity thus flowing freely. b) That your layers are not cooling too fast. Lowering the part fan setting or turning it off completely can also affect this. You’ll find that in the filament section and don’t be afraid to set the limits to absurd values such as no cooling for the first 1000 layers. Again, this is not permanent, just to see if you affect changes by setting these to extremes for testing purposes only.

image

While you are doing your testing, try different layer heights to see if the filament is struggling at certain layers. This too will tell you if you have a flow problem. Although can change this universally across the entire print in either the Process settings or the quality settings, I might suggest using the variable layer height tool and changing the layer height within the same model thus saving you printing time while you experiment.

Global Process Settings


Global Quality Settings
image

Layer height using the adaptive tool

How to tell what the layer height is for the entire model using the sliced drop down menu

Best Test Practices

To minimize filament and time usage, try this practice: cut the problematic model into smaller sections, including the corners, using the cut tool. Maintain the height for now. This creates a quicker, more efficient test model with reduced filament consumption. Print samples and progressively trim the model height until you isolate the issue. The aim for a small test subject so that you can print multiples that fills the plate, enabling multiple experimental settings on each model. This streamlines experimentation, saving time and filament. For example, If you have 4 models at five minutes each. You’re incurring a 6 minute overhead for purge and warmup. Thus, printing four samples individually takes at least 44 minutes, while printing them simultaneously reduces it to 26 minutes. This approach facilitates faster experimentation and minimizes waste.

3 Likes

Hello again,

I’ve printed the cubes that you’ve mentioned.

Number 1; Cube in vase mode, problems can be seen on every layer

Number 2; (With adaptive infill as the parts I print) Problems can be seen even more.

Number 3; With 5 walls. So bad quality on the walls.

Now about the settings; I dont know if they are really about them because I was printing exact same model for days. I think it’s maybe my printer needs some maintenance. But I can’t really determine what should I really do.

Ok. You are getting warmer in that you’ve at least created a simple test model that can force the error. That’s half the battle and you can scale that model even smaller to minimize filament waste. At least you’re not chasing ghosts.

Seeing that you can produce these artifacts with 5 walls and that he artifacts appear within the first 10mm, you can safely reduce your cube height to 10mm so that you speed up the diagnostic process and waste less filament.

Since the problem does not appear on the cylinder and appears really bad on the cube, let’s rule out a problem with one of the belts or the stepper motor. The easiest way is to put a second copy of the model at a 45 degree angle. It may seem counterintuitive but each motor/belt is responsible for movement in a 45 degree angle. If you want to see this in action, power off your printer so as not to fight the motors and then move the head manually in 45 degree angles and watch how only one belt moves at a time.

Rotate tool and type in 45 degrees in the z axis

After you slice, your bed should look like this. I would recommend changing the infill to grid rather than the rectangle you’re currently using just to simplify the geometry.

image

What we are looking for in the 45-degree angle cube is a marked change in pattern between one side and the adjacent side. As for your control, keep the first cube at the default angle. If you don’t reproduce the problem with the default angle, then there was something wrong with your settings. Reset the settings and print the default cube by itself just to make sure you didn’t change any conditions. It’s important that you create a test scenario that reproduces the first error your seeing with default cube orientation.

If the experiment yields different surfaces for the 45 degree cube, then you know that there is something interfering with either the stepper motor or the belt attached to that stepper motor or the pulley on that belt. For that, consult the Bambu maintenance for pulleys and belts.

A long shot - Z-axis problems.

If the steps above yield no different output then the next place I might look outside of the settings and of course, a different brand/type of filament is the Z-Axis movement.

Now I don’t recommend futzing around with the belts at the bottom of your printer but if let’s say any debris got tangled in with the belt, there is a long shot that it could be affecting the travel of your Z leads screws. I doubt it but it is worth inspecting the underside of your printer to rule it out. The pulleys underneath are not protected so an errant strand of filament, pet hair or thread could have wrapped around one of those pulleys. At least it’s worth investigating.

If your comfortable with making your own adjustments and if your printer is out of warranty, there is a guide on tensioning that may help.

Hi again and good morning,

I went bold last night and printed a piece of the project I’m on right now. (Also it was a perfect example for 45 degree print)

The problem is still there, pretty much now on every layer.

Also there’s a sound which I don’t think it is healthy I’ve shot a video.

What’d I do from now? Does this print eliminate the possibility of stepper motor or the belt attached to that. My P1S is not even 1 month old… It’s under guarantee.

As a note, I think this problem started shortly after I changed the nozzle and extruder gear to hardened steel and put anti-vibration feets to the machine. Would anti-vibration feet make such a problem?


I just wanted to give a shot and I’ve done belt tensioning amd cleaned the carbon rods. Problem still continues.

If I may say so, you need to slow down. You’re violating the first rule of troubleshooting, which is to change only one variable at a time. Perhaps I should have stressed this in larger print earlier but I did try to make it clear from the onset.

image

You just added three new variables not previously mentioned. Had they been stated at the start, the troubleshooting path would have started on a completely different trajectory. In other words, you wasted a lot of time here.

If you noticed that these problems started occurring after you made a change in hardware, then logically it would make sense to roll back any changes to see if these changes influenced the outcome. In other words, remove the feet and reinstall the extruder and nozzle from before, then repeat your test.

Given the recent hardware changes, we need to think about troubleshooting differently. The YouTube video isn’t clear for hearing differences in sound, especially without a comparison video from before the upgrade. Unevenly tightening screws during nozzle replacement or vibrations from the anti-vibration feet affecting the Z-Axis could explain the difference between smooth cylinders and failed prints with rippling on horizontal surfaces. Abrupt nozzle changes at 90-degree angles, if screws are unevenly tightened or loose, might introduce new vibrations leading to random striping. Similarly, the extruder change could cause feed variations if not done correctly. Changing three variables at once makes it impossible to find the main problem.

1st Commandment of troubleshooting

image

3 Likes

Hello again,
I was a bit too fast i know but I went step by step from the morning today and still going on. So far;

  1. I’ve uninstalled the antivibration feet, made auto calibration, printed the same object, same result.
  2. Cleaned the carbon rods and done belt tensioning, calibrated again, printed the same object, same result.
  3. About the extruder gear and the nozzle, I haven’t done anything.
  4. I was scared about touching to the bottom part of the printer for Z axis, I kept researching.
  5. I saw a similar result from a troubleshooting video,

So I decided to ‘calibrate’ my filament manually but I almost know nothing about the fans. After calibration of flow and pressure, I will do another test print and see if anything --got better–. So if any kind of progress happens, I’ll try to play with fan settings.

What’d you suggest me to do?

At this point I think it’s best that I step back from this topic and offer up these videos as possibly a next stop. Also, if you haven’t yet contacted Bambu support, since your printer is still inside warranty, it might be a good idea to at least open up a ticket to document that you are having trouble. Then if it turns out to be a hardware issue, you will have least logged when the trouble started.

Part 1

Part 2

Comprehensive start to finish methodology referencing part 1 and 2, includes the whys and hows and in what order.

1 Like

Thanks for all the help that you’ve provided! You’re a really good person and you were the only one that helped that deep to me.

Unfortunately I still haven’t figured out what it is because I’ve done filament calibrations and the issue still keeps up.

I think my problem is Z-axis.
‘pet hair or thread could have wrapped around one of those pulleys’ you said, I have a chow chow which is very hairy. Mostly not in my room but sometimes he comes and says hello. I’ll check it out tomorrow and open up a ticket to bambu.

This is right now printing with same issue continues.

It’s a very hard journey for me and I’m a real newbie around. This is the 3rd problem I’ve been having with my brand new first printer. I hope I solve this out and just keep printing.

Tinkering is fun but its been real hard especially this time.

Thanks again for your wise and high quality detailed helps. I’ve eliminated lot of options with your help sir!

Have you tried printing a thicker first layer? With a 0.4mm nozzle, the normal layer height for the X1C is 0.2mm and the first layer is also 0.2mm. You can go a little higher with the first layer to 0.25mm for example or 0.3mm. Just test to see if the problem changes with the height of the first layer.

these horizontal lines may be a problem with the Z axis, it may need to be cleaned and lubricated

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Es muss zuerst sicher gestellt werden, dass der Extruder insgesamt intakt ist. Dazu müssen die Zahnräder im Feeder inspiziert werden, es muss ausgeschlossen werden, dass irgendetwas Spiel hat, im zusammengebauten Zustand. Kunststoffzahnräder sollen einwandfrei sein. Die Zwischenräume der Zähne aller Zahnräder sollen frei von Abrieb sein. Erweckt ein Zahnrad den Eindruck, dass die Zähne abgenutzt sind, muss es getauscht werden. Die Spannfeder im Feeder sollte richtig gespannt sein. Eventuell einen neuen Feeder bestellen und austauschen. Falls die Spannfeder im Feeder durch eine Schraube komplett zusammengedrückt wird, diese Schraube ein paar Umdrehungen herausdrehen.

Die Düse muss fest sitzen. Der Druckkopf darf kein Spiel haben.

Die Riemen der Achsen überprüfen. Sie müssen alle gerade laufen, keiner sollte an den Pulleys oben oder unten an den Rändern laufen (schleifen). Die Riemen müssen mittig laufen. Ebenso das Zahnrad auf den Antriebsmotoren (Stepper). Es soll fest auf richtiger Höhe sitzen, so dass auch dort der Riemen mittig läuft und nicht an den Außenkanten schleift. Die Pulleys sollen nicht eiern sondern schön rund laufen. Alles sollte frei von Staub und ähnlichem sein.

Nachdem das alles inspiziert wurde, sauber und fest sitzt und die Zahnriemen fortschriftsmäßig gespannt sind kann alles kalibriert werden. Zum Schluss das Filament.

Wenn eine neue Düse zum Wechseln vorhanden ist, könnte diese noch ausgetauscht werden, zumindest um bei der Fehlersuche hier eventuelle Fehler auszuschließen.

The problem continues. I’ve made filament calibration and it was ‘‘not that bad’’ on smaller objects. But a big one again and here we are at the exact same point. Even worse. I’m sick of it.

Is the print lifting? It looks like it in the photo, but perhaps it’s just a fillet at the underside (which would print better if the design was changed to a chamfer anyway). If the print detaches from the plate (more likely with a wide print like in the photo), then all further printing would be affected.

It does not appear as if there is glue on the plate, but perhaps that is just the photo. Below is some glue help that I have posted a few times previously…

I don’t think the print lifts. Because these error appears very clearly even on bambu cube’s. These are the cubes I’ve printed yesterday.

Today I’m printing another big object with even lower volumetric speed. (Testing if my filament’s settings are not that good with Generic settings.)

The odd thing here is, these both are same brand filaments that printed exactly same settings. But the black cube looks much more smoother than the yellow.

Also another thing, there’s some color changes (or defects idk) on exactly same layers.
Maybe these informations give idea to determining the problem.




That last print is a lot better than the pink/purple block posted further up, but I’m out of ideas for what may be causing the layer discoloration (gloss/matt). It’s normally speed differences on curved surfaces, like the underside of a Benchy.
:thinking: